Iran Strike: Doable
I posted this at my site on 13 February 2006 as an addition to a post titled World War VI for the Yankee Dollar, and in response to comments by qrswave. I just wanted to have a look at whether, from the perspective of DoD planners, an attack on Iran was feasible and what form it might take; factoring in destruction of nuclear plants and gaining control of oil fields.
Today I just read this 3 February 2006 post: Armchair Neocon by Steven Lavagulin at deconsumption which highlighted this quote:
"Bush has no intention of occupying Iran. Rather, the goal is to destroy major weapons-sites, destabilize the regime, and occupy a sliver of land on the Iraqi border that contains 90% of Iran’s oil wealth. Ultimately, Washington will aim to replace the Mullahs with American-friendly clients who can police their own people and fabricate the appearance of representative government."Seems my amateur musings struck gold – unnerving. Especially knowing that primo protection racketeer "Don Rumsfeldo"* has just declared all bloggers the new arm of global al-Qaida.
Original post:
Above you have a map of the major Iranian Oil Fields. They lie in an area measuring about 150 by 230 kms down there by the gulf. Below is a map marking the major sites to be struck by bunker busters and "mini-nukes" in an aerial attack sometime at the end of March. The date I've seen most often is March 28, coinciding with the Israeli elections. The most important plants being the ones at Bushehr and Arak.
I don't know about the weather conditions and patterns in Iran at that time but someone has factored them in. My guess is winds will be mainly SSE off the gulf, carrying fallout away from the Oil fields and smack into Tehran. Think Chernobyl. Not a pretty picture. Of course the planner would consider this collateral damage and minimal. Control of those oil fields also seems feasible from a military standpoint. The troops are right across the border. All they need do is secure that area. Doable.
To put this all into some kind of [human] perspective or scale I can relate to here's an image from a previous post.
[A settlement of Dye workers, close to Natanz in the Isfahan province]
* "It may be easier for all of us to use our scarce tax dollars to meet urgent needs we all have at home," Rumsfeld said. "But unless we invest in our defense and security, our homelands will be at risk."
posted by yusuf chun @ Saturday, February 18, 2006
17 Comments:
I agree this is most likely, as I said before in previous comments. I would be surprised if we went to actual war with Iran. I also think Israel will accomplish these bombings, not the U.S., as they did in 1981 with Iraq.
Call me a neocon, but I am honestly worried about Iran having "WMD." Not because I think Iran would use them on us - but that they really might sell to a terrorist state or to Israel.
That said, there obviously would be massive collateral damage in a targetted bombing like that. I am aware. But what's the alternative? Iran already stated they want to annhiliate Israel. Some of you on here would say "So what?" To me, it's a frightening concept for a state actor in the Middle East to have a nuclear bomb whose stated goal is to drive Israel into the sea.
Golly gee, but it is far more horrific for us gentiles, who outnumber u Judeo-"Sadduceans" for ISRAEL TO HAVE WMDs. And the obvious "alternative" to striking Iran is to strike the real terror-state ISRAEL! Poor "Miss R" above JUST DOESN'T "GET IT," SEE. But mark, Jews, regardless how u have urselves fooled MORE AND MORE AND MORE OF US GENTILES see the truth: Israel is the problem NOT IRAN. Note this isn't ur country Jew, u merely being scummy recipients of Aryan Christian charity--which is going to come to a screeching halt quite soon. Ur days are numbered, Jews. Say ur prayers. Thor
mighty thor, take your threats elsewhere.
Miss R, the problem I have with your position is that "targeted" nuclear strikes, with its accompanying "collateral damage" is an act of war and will most definitely be followed by retaliation from Iran and rightly so. So, you see there is no way to avoid a full scale war, no matter what "neocons" "plan."
Another problem is what's your definition of a "terrorist" state? And, why should a "threat" to Israel warrant dragging the United States into WWIII? Why can't Israel just get along with its neighbors and end the occupation of land that's not theirs?
Qrswave, who are u kidding? Surely u agree my alternative position is perfectly equal to "Miss R's"--why do u prejudicially characterize my legitimate position as "threats"?--what in the name of God is US-Israel-EU doing now to Iran?
Qrswave, can't u see why/how we say u are absolutely demented? And note further qrswave: u're demented loyalty to an enemy state and people is inadmissable. U are committing treason, pure and simple (if u're not Jew). That u don't care doesn't change the reality. Indeed, that u don't care is simply proof of ur dementia, comrade. Ask urself who u're fooling, comrade. The internet favors info, and that means the Judeo-"Sadduceans" prospects are bleaker and bleaker. Existentially, the Fed counterfeiting fraud is absolutely key--when it goes, as it must eventually, Judeo-"Sadduceans" go too. Repent. Thor
Qrswave:
I do not believe that getting out of the West Bank will end terrorism or a threat to Israel. It is also my belief that Israel (and not the U.S.) will accomplish any bombing of the weapons areas in Iran. I think Iran is really only a threat to Israel at this point and the threat will be neutralized in this manner.
I believe that the President of Iran, in the statements he has said denying the Holocaust (calling it a "fairy tale"), in his statements that he wants to spread Islam around the world by strength of force if necessary...he has made himself into a threat. I believe collateral damage - death to civilians - is absolutely tragic. And a strike in Iran would be tragic. But I also believe that at this point is may be necessary.
Furthermore, if there is a war between Israel and Iran, let's face it - Israel has ten times the military might of Iran. There's no contest. I don't think that would cause WWIII. But there certainly is a risk for extreme escalation of violence.
There's no easy answers. We live in perilous times.
Well qrswave, u see the absolute, intense, never-ending insanity and subjectivism of the Jew: it is truly their strength. But history is cyclic, as reality is DETERMINED, as God is all powerful, only God's will prevailing, despite Judaic insanity or persistence. Yes, Bush and "neo-cons" (the Judeo-"Sadducean") conspiracy absolutely need "Perpetual war for perp. peace." And yes, it looks like the elders of present-day will allow it, the assassination of Iran to happen, though somewhat fretfully. But as elders die off, Jews and "Sadduceans" become evermore exposed. The worm will turn. Thor
"his statements that he wants to spread Islam around the world by strength of force if necessary"
Provide a link, please.
And, death of civilians is not "tragic." It's criminal and immoral.
Qrswave, note carefully the naked meaning of "Miss R" above: because Pres. Iran "denies" holohoax religion in favor of truth--Iran deserves to get nuked. Am I missing something? U have a raging psychopath for a "friend." Thor
Well said comrade "whiteAlert.com" above, at 2:31PM--but I would go farther yet and say we should annihilate Judaism itself. Judaism/Talmudism is essence of hubris by which an insane people make themselves God, pretending God WORSHIPS THEM--as in ur excellent essay by myself, "Anti-Semitic Facts...."
It used to be in our culture it was merely understood as common sense to avoid insanity. But Jews practice this insanity at the Mephistophelian price--yes, in the cycle (Spenglerian "Decline of the West") they can attain absolute Satanic control over the world--but only in accord with objective, determinist, cyclic, conspiratorial reality in the end.
Note there's the inevitable other phase of cycle (or "dialectic" as in Hegel) favoring Christians--somewhat, as we can't know which Christians gotta bravely bite the dust as soldiers and which will triumph in the end, the "end" being peak of next cycle, whence tragically, we'll have to go to the down-surge of the large events. At least foregoing is my theory founded in inductive logic, u know, that pedestrian and much-ridiculed thing, the superstition of the West, eh?
In that inevitable future era of cyclicality, another mixed-race equivalent of present-day Jews will arise and declare itself God (collectivistically), the "apple" of an inferior God's "eye," but which inferior God yet annihilates nations for them. But ck Gosp. JOHN 8:44 which says it all.
For Judaism is actually merely a strategically directed insanity (hystericism and narcissism) bought at the price of Satan's agent, Mephistopheles. At the price of most extremely directed and contrived SUBJECTIVISM, Jews learn to successfully lie to themselves nearly endlessly; they presently (topmost masterminds) presently run the Federal Reserve Bank (Fed) counterfeiting scam, source of all earthly power. But it's only at price and behest of a corrupted elder generation of gentiles, upon which host Jews feed as disease-of-opportunity, the HUBRIS of the gentiles, esp. in form of Pelagian heresy. But I know u Rich have heard it all before, eh?
The fallacy to the Jews is they will destroy the host, causing then the topmost Jews and conspirators to cannibalize the lower-level Jews who have been collectivistically trained to accept it and even anticipate such gory suicide--as long as they imagine they've satanically killed enough goyim in their endless bloodlust. It's a grim game, this life, filled with war, treachery, tragedy, and Jews, foremost frauds and warriors.
CONCLUSION: So we gotta use our God-given reason and tools of the culture, like New Testament Conspiracy theory-analytic-template; we can learn things. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
qrswave: http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5166
This speaks to spreading Islam all over the world. Now, the way it was written sounds very similar to Osama Bin Laden. Yes, I agree he did not say he will use force in spreading Islam. But how else will Islam be spread across the world?
Whitealert: You are very funny if you think that the Palestinians, if they took over Israel, would ever even let a Jew step foot in Israel, let alone have peaceful coexistence.
My ideal world is one with no religious states. My ideal world is secularism across the world, and a live and let live attitude - you want to worship whoever you want, fine - as long as you let me worship who I want (or, if I am atheist, not worship).
I am not saying ANY religious state is an ideal. However, I, as well as many, in fact live in the real world. And in the real world there are people who want to exterminate Jews off the face of this planet. (look at Mighty Thor for an example of this)
Living in the REAL WORLD, I like the idea that there will always be a sort of "safe place" for Jews in the world - especially in light of the Holocaust - a Holocaust that many want to start again.
Christians have their states, Muslims have their states, Hindus have their's - why can't Jews have one state, Israel?
That all said, white power, Israel isn't a religious state. It's a culturally Jewish state, and in fact secularly run. The government is not run according to the bible/Talmud/what have you. In fact, Arab Israelis in Israel have the right to vote. You do not have to be Jewish to be allowed into the State of Israel. (compare that to much of the Arab world)
I would like to further add that Israel has one of the most amounts of patents issued, per capita, in the world. They spit out more engineers/scientists/mathematicians/etc per capita - than almost any other country in the world. They are not just some rabidly religious state, and people forget how much America relies on Israel not just for a base in the Middle East, but rather, for their scientists. I found an article about this - but alas, it was only available on Lexis, so I will copy and paste:
BUSINESS: Business, Government Leaders See Innovation As; Essential National Journal's Technology Daily December 15, 2004 Wednesday
Copyright 2004 National Journal Group, Inc.
National Journal's Technology Daily
PM Edition
December 15, 2004 Wednesday
LENGTH: 544 words
HEADLINE: BUSINESS: Business, Government Leaders See Innovation As; Essential
BYLINE: Danielle Belopotosky
BODY:
Innovation is the key to retaining America's competitive edge in
the global marketplace, industry leaders and university
presidents said at a meeting Wednesday.
"We are bound by our ability to innovate and [by] the boundaries
of our imagination," BellSouth Chairman and CEO Duane Ackerman
said at an event sponsored by the Council on Competitiveness,
which he chairs.
The council released a report that said, "The United States is
at a juncture where the marketplace is becoming truly global and
the pace of innovation is shifting." While the United States is
still the world leader in innovation, the report concluded, its
foundation easily could be shaken.
The report also recommends that 10 innovation "hotspots" be
established over five years to capitalize on regional assets
like universities, national laboratories and private research
institutes.
Other areas of the world are emerging as innovation hotspots. In
2003, according to the report, Israel and South Korea spent more
on research and development in terms of gross domestic product
than the 2.7 percent of GDP in the United States, with Taiwan
and Singapore close behind. And one-half of U.S. patents belong
to companies and vendors outside the United States, said Samuel
Palmisano, the chairman and CEO of IBM.
America is losing its competitive edge at the "wrong time,"
Palmisano said. "Innovation should be the national priority."
A technically driven workforce, revitalized investment and a
national infrastructure conducive to more innovation are the
building blocks to secure America's economic growth, the experts
said.
"We have to get our young people to think in innovative ways,"
said Shirley Ann Jackson, president of the Rensselaer
Polytechnic Institute. Jobs of the future require science,
engineering and technology, she said, but "science and
engineering education is not valued."
The United States will graduate 4,400 doctoral students in
science, technology and math in 2004, Republican Massachusetts
Gov. Mitt Romney said, while some 24,000 such degrees will be
granted in other countries. And Corbett Broad, president of the
University of North Carolina, noted estimates putting about 90
percent of all scientists and engineers in Asia within five
years.
Today, innovation is collaborative and involves multiple
disciplines, Palmisano said, adding that "the onus is on all of
us." He likened the future of innovation to an ecosystem, where
industry, researchers, education officials and the government
work in an open space that no one owns.
Funding is critical to keep basic research moving forward, said
G. Wayne Clough, president of the Georgia Institute of
Technology. He said the federal government should maintain its
role as the "funder of first resort," as well as shift funds to
"high-risk" investments.
In order to prepare for jobs of tomorrow, Jackson said a
national infrastructure must be in place, and it will take
leadership at the federal level.
And Virginia Gov. Mark Warner, a Democrat who will be heading
the National Governors Association, said a national
infrastructure requires political leadership, which should
"focus on education and research that defines and sets
measurable goals."
But "Miss R" u lie when u say Israel isn't run according to Talmud. Ur insanity is artistic and sublime, but still insanity. "Judaism [like Carthage of old] must be destroyed"--Cato the elder. Thor
Miss R, I'm glad that you think that everyone should live and let live in peace; I agree.
Israel and certain elements in our own government, unfortunately, insist on the opposite.
You overlook that "Islamic" and "Christian" countries exist by natural majority, i.e., democracy. Israel is a country with a Jewish majority, manufactured by immigration and force.
And, "how else will Islam be spread across the world?" Faith. Islam grows every day because people are persuaded by its logic. It's expressly forbidden in the Quran to force faith on anyone.
And re: Israel's patents and scientests. The real question is how could they possibly NOT be well educated when they receive annually so many billions in grants and favorable loans from the United States?
Besides, you and I know that patents are indefensible. No scientist invents in a vacuum. Human progress builds on human strides already made. No one deserves a monopoly on technology and knowledge.
That said, I think that a two state solution is acceptable, though not IDEAL, as you pointed out above.
"My ideal world is one with no religious states."
Qrswave, I begin to see the world u live in, subjectivistic itself, like (Immanuel) Kant, a world wherein people can be "moral"--and so "compassionate" too--though this is just more HUBRIS.
And because of "idealistic" people like u, qrswave, Jews like "Miss R" thrive and will continue killing, and slaughtering, murdering, and massacre-ing--until they run out of victims, and like parasites must expire themselves. So I admit ur logic does have its undeniable power. But the cyclic progress of history continues nonetheless as we see.
Though Ed Steele (ConspiracyPenPal.com) says "It's the Jews, stupid," it isn't only the Jews, for they need "Sadduceans" like u (qrswave) to make the way for them. Also, Jews need a goodly number of "Judeo-Christians" too.
But ur Fed counterfeiting scam must fall eventually; that will be Judeo-"Sadducean" (imperialist) undoing, I suspect. Cyclic history continues inexorably. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
HAHAHAHAHA I didn't realize I am a killer. Wow. Pretty funny stuff.
When the Iranian president stated the Holocaust didn't exist (and he did state this), and that he wants to obliterate Israel...when he then adds in the next comment he wants Islam to take over the world...seems to me to be exactly what it sounds like. (that he wants to use force to make that happen)
I am not saying patents are defensible. But they are the merely proof of intense innovation. Qrswave, yes, the U.S. gives economic aid to Israel to enable them to invest in R&D - but the amount that Israel does in return (through giving the U.S. intelligence (top notch in the world), scientists, and, frankly, by being a stable democracy in the Middle East) - it justifies this.
I know you will say "but Israel is not a democracy!" As stated above - Arab Israelis can and do vote in Israel. And like it or lump it - right now, there's a majority of Jews in the main part of Israel. (not in the West Bank)
Israel was not merely "manufactured." You say you believe in the bible (which I actually don't, but to each his own). I do believe in history. Jews have a long historic tie to the land. Hell, Jews have more of a historic tie to the land than Americans do to the United States! (I mean, then, according to you, should we give the land back to the Native Americans??) Furthermore, every single country on earth is the result of one group of people taking over over another group. This is not a hyperbole. I stand by these words. Every country on earth is the result of one people taking over the land of another. According to your logic, countries should cease to exist. And, as stated above, this is not a clear case of Jews coming in and taking over Israel without ties to the land - they do have very long and historic ties to the land! I mean, Jesus of Nazareth was JEWISH when he lived in Israel.
Finally, you have yet to show me that the mainland of Israel was anything but sparsely populated by Arab Israelis prior to the settlement of Israel by the Jews. These Arab Israelis who already were living on the land were given the right to vote in Israel. Can you say that about the rest of the Middle East? Alas, no.
I will tell you this. I do not think Islam is logical, though, nor do I think Judaism or Christianity is logical. My own belief is that Judaism attempts to build the religion on law and logic, but ultimately, it rests on a belief of some imaginery god in the sky who created the universe and actually gives a shit over what happens in the world. I personally think if there is a god (which is possible, though is beyond human comprehension if such a being exists), then we are so insignificant, that we are the equivalent of ants. Do you care whether any one ant lives or dies? Do you care if an ant is a good or a bad ant? I sure don't.
Morality is possible through a belief in the fundamental goodness of mankind, and recognizing that we all are human and we possess a fundamental shared humanity. Religion attempts to fracture our shared humanity by saying "this group of people are evil because they don't believe the arbitrary thing I believe in."
Furthermore, if heaven existed, it could only exist under one of two parameters. Let me start off by saying the human mind is incapable of actually conceiving of eternity. We are just not programmed to understand the forever, because on earth, everything has a beginning, middle, and end. Furthermore, happiness is only available to us all because we can distinguish it from sadness. If heaven is actually something that lasts for eternity, and where we keep some current incarnation of ourselves, we would be so bored that we would literally see heavn to be hell. Furthermore, we would not even be happy, because we cannot exist in a place where happiness exists 24/7 - we then lose all distinctions, and happiness becomes sadness. This sort of heaven - the eternal bliss sort of heaven portrayed in movies - it seems to be hell to me.
The alternative form of heaven is one where we lose all connection to our human brain and become something so radically different, that we can conceive of eternity. This is the Jewish incarnation of heaven. Heaven to Jews is simply being as close to god as possible. But if we lose all sense of self, do we exist? Isn't it then irrelevant if there's heaven?
My own belief is ashes to ashes, dust to dust. We do live on, but in the memories of other people. My grandmother who recently died - she is inextricably tied to who I am as a person. She never will die as long as I am alive, and she will live on in my children, assuming I have any. That is what I believe.
http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/
It is up to the religious folks to prove their religion. They have yet to do so. This is why I honestly see no logic behind it.
That said, I believe everyone should be free to believe what y'all want - as long as you don't force me to believe it.
Miss R, you're entitled to believe whatever you believe.
But, you shouldn't be surprised or annoyed to find yourself in a minority.
Most people believe in God, whether they're Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
Likewise, most people, even if they acknowledge Israel's right to exist, find the Zionist agenda in Israel and the Middle East indefensible.
We can discuss it until we turn blue (though, I prefer not to). The facts speak volumes, and the truth ultimately prevails over every illusion.
Just because most people believe in something doesn't mean it's right.
I do hope the truth will eventually win out!
If you believe in the bible, it says right in the bible that Israel is the land of the Jews. I am not basing any justification for being in Israel on the bible. But I am just saying, that if you do believe in the bible, then the bible is rather self evident.
"Jews" are by def. followers of Pharisees who murdered Christ, Pharisees who made up only at most, 15% of pop. of Judea at the time. After the rebellion of 66-72 AD there were only 2 sects left, Christians and Pharisees.
As usual "Miss R" merely declares and gives no references whatever regarding her lie to effect anything belongs to Jews.
As "WhiteAlert.com" indicates above, present-day "Jews" are actually mixed race Khazars (Turk-Mongol) who converted to Judaism sometime in the 7th to 8th centuries according to Jew Arthur Koestler, "The Thirteenth Tribe." Ck also JewishTribalReview.org.
"Miss R" is caught in yet another lie. Thor
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