Les Visible on Paradise Now and Zionist "Peace"
Extracts from a piece by Les Visible on the Oscar nominated film Paradise Now and one of its opponents, Nonie Darwish of Arabs for Israel. I remember the day of our interview so well. Before I talked with Nonie I had had all sorts of conflicting ideas in my mind. Somehow I had gotten the mistaken idea that Palestinians were people. Talking with Nonie helped me to understand that they weren’t people at all and it didn’t matter what happened to them. She explained to me that the Palestinians served an important purpose in the Zionist game plan and in that regard they did have a certain amount of value. “When an IDF soldier shoots a Palestinian child we have to consider all of the collateral benefits that accrue as a result. The soldiers are able to test their weapons. They are able to improve their targeting skills. Israeli munitions companies benefit and the economy is made more robust. In this way the Palestinians do provide an important service. They’re not all bad, these Palestinians. Israel is working for peace all over the world. When the apartheid government was having trouble with their own insects in South Africa, Israel was right there to assist them tactically as well as with interrogation techniques and weaponry. It is truly unfortunate that the communist agitator Nelson Mandela was released from prison. At that time, though it grieved the hearts of the compassionate Israeli government, they chose to withdraw and have no further connection with the South Africans. Many of us still grieve over that.” Nonie crossed her sleek legs and gave us that seductive eye contact that has made her an object of desire the world over.[Full post here, hattip wrh]
[snip]
“You see how clear it is.” she continued, “everywhere in the world Israelis are working for peace, In PNAC, in AIPAC and many other organizations. They even created their own Al Qaeda cell in a Palestinian area in order to spread peace. They assisted in the wonderful attack on the World Trade Center that has made so many peace initiatives possible the world over. Consider the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and the coming carpet bombing of Syria and Iran. Everywhere you look Israel is in the vanguard of the universal peace initiative. We must now stop this filthy film from receiving any attention at all. I’m sure you agree that it will only serve to agitate and possibly injure our collective effort to make this world what it has always been destined to be, one world under Israel.”
I could only nod my head and sit in awe of this woman’s clear and lovely understanding of how it should all be. I imagined myself as a dog curled at her feet, hoping for any sign of attention; a kick or even only harsh words; it would not matter to me.
“Zionism should be the first concern of honest Arabs everywhere. It is such a tragedy that all Arabs do not yet comprehend that their first duty is to see that all of Israel’s needs are met. What does an Arab life matter anyway?” she gave me a sultry moue and handed off her cup to an attendant for a refill.
posted by yusuf chun @ Saturday, March 04, 2006
30 Comments:
Thanks much for noting of satire by "Les Visible." I've seen Les's work before. Les (a Jew, I believe) then seems to instruct his fellow lower-level, "working class" type Jews about the lampooning of Israel, bloodthirsty catspaw.
But again, dear little Les doesn't want to face the fact ZIONISM IS MERE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF PRIOR MORE FUNDAMENTAL JUDAISM-TALMUDISM.
Must admit the images generated by Les are impressive--muted luridity--very good. But there's not really too good analysis of basic principles at issue, like again regarding the fascist nature of Talmud. Thor
This is fictional, right? She didn't really say these things, surely.
don't think so, he's just trying to make a point.
mike posted this with the caveat, "satire, i think"
fraysickened, Thor is not a contributor. He's a visitor. He speaks on behalf of himself.
And yes he offends people very often - almost always.
No one is "bad" per se. Conduct is harmful or productive. People who engage in harmful conduct must be held accountable - whether they call themselves Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or anything else.
It's not what you call yourself, but what you do that counts.
The movie is a piece of filth that praises suicide bombing. The fact that it was nominated for an Oscar and won the Golden Globe award speaks volumes to the fact that in fact Hollywood is NOT run by a "Zionist conspiracy" or by Israel.
The fact that this film has an audience is enough to make me want to hurl. Just sad and pathetic - and speaks volumes to the hatred in this world directed against Israel.
And Palestinians serve the purpose of Israelis testing for weapons? This blog is filth for passing on such blatantly anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies.
Anon Mar 5, 1:16PM said: "This blog is filth for passing on such blatantly anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli lies."
It's perfectly clear from the comments that this is an opinion piece - NOT literal.
Nice to know that you can't read.
This site is not ANTI-Israel, and certainly NOT ANTI-Jewish. The site is anti- BAD CONDUCT, which Israel engages in regularly.
qrswave said Mar 4, 8:48PM: "No one is "bad" per se. Conduct is harmful or productive. People who engage in harmful conduct must be held accountable - whether they call themselves Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or anything else.
It's not what you call yourself, but what you do that counts."
That's the TRUTH. Take it or leave it. The TRUTH does not require your approval.
Reply To "Fraysickened," The Guttersnipe
(Mighty Thor, 5 Mar 06)
In reply to "fraysickened" above, I simply state "Les" ("Les Visible" on SmokingMirrors.blogspot.com) cannot stand criticism, nor can his craven minions, like "fraysickened." As for my "ass," well I have reason to think it's getting along alright as ever.
Observe perhaps what "fraysickened" really means is I was censored by poor, dear "Les," who cannot stand criticism as I say.
But it's U and Les who are the craven cowards, "fraysickened"--who are u kidding? Being censored by Jews and lickspittles is merely necessary to my patriot's reputation, thank u.
And u are anti-Christ traitor(s) and/or enemies of the Christian USA too, aren't u "fraysickened"? I may be "nutter" but I'm loyal Christian and proudly antisemitic.
And I pointed out, exposing, his (Les Visible's) putrid essay and writing mentality attempts to equate Christianity w. Talmud, and Zionism, implying one can no more criticise Judaism than Christianity, which I hold is false, giving my reasons in appropriate detail, as always, w. plenty references.
"Fraysickened" is thus actually a blatant liar (and therefore probably a Jew, too). And I invite all people to simply ck the brilliant essays of my excellent colleague, "Apollonian," on NewNation.org, under "commentary" heading.
As a committed antisemite, I simply bring to ur easy attention fact Christianity is properly and necessarily antisemitic. This is Christian country/land/nation, and Jews (and gentile accomplices) will yet learn. For Jews and Jew-loving "Sadduceans" of modern-day, like "fraysickened," want to prejudice people's minds pretending antisemitism is merely for "nutters."
No, "fraysickened," antisemitism is what will be official policy in accord w. our Christian Constitution, and this antisemitism is duly in accord w. rejection of Talmudic hystericism, subjectivism, narcissism, "midrash," etc.
Iran is not the threat (either to world or USA); Israel and Jews are. Israel and Jews murdered our men on the US Liberty, then covered it up, back in 1967, and lately colluded in the murder of US citizens on 9-11--the evidence is overwhelming, "fraysickened," and for u to deny is proof u're the "nutter."
Further, Jews and Israelis have been arrested for spying on the USA, Larry Franklin, professional "neo-con" traitor and lickspittle already pleading guilty. Lewis Libby, another Jew, connected with VP Cheney, betrayed American efforts to keep nuclear weapons out of hands of Israeli terrorists. Jack Abramoff, aside fm bribing US politicians, also harbored "Arab-hijacker"/fall-guy, Mohammed Atta.
Jews are truly very much the problem not only for USA but the entire world.
Let me assure u, whether we're nutcases or not, we are the people of this land, Christians in a Christian, hence antisemitic, land/nation/country as I say.
And it is very much precisely our antisemitic case that Jews are "bad" (antithematic) "per se"--it's our whole case, the very essence of New Testament LITERATURE (see Gosp.s JOHN 8:44, MARK. 7:1-8, entire 23rd chapt. MATT., etc.)
U can call us "nutters" all u please, but antisemitism (hence Christianity) is what will prevail in this, our Christian land, and people will choose such antisemitism as the only rational way. For we say very plainly Talmud is insanity, and we're confident rational people agree and will agree more often and intensively.
"Things" don't "compute" for u "fraysickened"?--it is merely because u are an anti-Christ enemy and/or traitor, that's why. Also, u ("fraysickened") can't be very bright either. Simple honesty requires acknowledgement Christianity is antisemitic, known by any honest person.
I present an argument, all u ("fraysickened") can do is pretend w. ur idiotic character assassination and ad hominem. I'm an honest antisemite; u're cowardly enemy of Christ and USA in favor of Jews and Israel, and their gentile accomplices and co-conspirators.
The more u, "fraysickened," "talk" on the Internet, the more patriotic Americans and honest people anywhere see exactly what is the problem, toleration of Judaic insanity and effrontery like urs.
Finally, I thank u for all ur comments; u reveal much--tell us more by all means. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
qrswave,
I contend that this post is extremely anti-Israel and anti-Jewish, and that the blog as a whole is anti-Israel and anti-Jewish.
I have read over this blog and have yet to find one post that actually is critical of Islamic Fundamentalism or suicide bombing. I have yet to find OLD post that is critical of Palestinian tactics. I have yet to find ONE post that is critical of the repressive regimes in the Middle East that Kill more Muslims than Israel or the US ever did. I have yet to find ONE post that says ANYTHING positive about Israel.
Such targetted anger against Israel is nothing if not the hallmark of anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish sentiment. Why Israel? Why are you targeting the policies of this one nation over others? Why is this one nation so much worse in its treatment of Arabs that what occurs daily in Arab nations across the Middle East?
Such a double standard and a targeted attack are the hallmark of anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish sentiment. I challenge you to prove me otherwise. I challenge you to even create one post that is as vitriolic against a Middle Eastern country (or ANY country, other than the US or Israel) as this one is against Israel.
Until you can do so (and apply the same standards to other countries that you do to Israel), this blog remains anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish.
To hell with Israel and Jews: this is a Christian land, the USA, and Christianity is necessarily antisemitic (Gosp.s JOHN 8:44; MARK 7:1-8; MATT., all 39 verses of ch. 23.) What an idiotic post fm "anon" 4:46--take Israel (and Jews) and flush them down toilet where they belong. Thor
If I stopped blogging, Thor, would it make you happy?
Would it make you happy, anon?
I don't need this headache.
I happen to think you have much to offer the world when you do not discuss Israel in the one sided way it is continually discussed. I think you are intelligent and your posts are often thought provoking. I think that this blog has become anti-Israel, but I also think you are capable of much, much more.
I do not associate what you believe with that of Thor/Appy, HOWEVER, when you have such one-sided and double-standardy posts, then of course there naturally will be the association between what you write and what Thor writes.
I suggest taking time off and reading some non-biased and more fact-based works about Israel, and concentrating about the monetary system. The monetary system in fact is the true evil right now, not Israel. And the more I read paranoia-drenched posts concerning Israel's involvement in 9/11 (amongst other posts), the less credible I find the blog in general. I suggest you get back to your roots and write from the heart and mind about the true evil in this country/world: unsustainable debt, zero thought for the worker, runaway greed, and corporations that loot the public and employee coffers. You have only started to scratch the surface of the evil that exists in this country, and if you stopped blogging, it would be a great disservice.
I said my peace, and I hope you continue blogging.
Well gee, qrswave, u need to examine ur conscience, I suspect. I'm actually happy to bring u to this moment of EPIPHANY, comrade qrswave. For what u see, very simply is the absolute indefensibility of Jews, the enemies of humanity--literally the fact, by Jews' own admission, in perfect accord with their war-plan, the Talmud.
Why blame me for merely honest expression of truth--don't I give u great references?
(Honestly, maybe u do need some time off to consider how brilliantly ur blogs have turned out for such successful antisemitism, all consistent w. the truth in accord with Christian and Islamic OBJECTIVE REALITY.)
I've only helped u do the greatest job blogging and exposing the truth--u need to be able to appreciate ur moment of success--but u evidently FEAR VICTORY.
That's why males make best soldiers, I guess. Thor
Let me clarify something here that might not be known. The poster known as The Appolonian was created to give the impression that he is me. I posted for a long time at a site called Best of the Fray under the name 'appolonious' where I wrote in a manner similar to that you see on my blogs.
The virulent anti-semite The Appolonian is a blind that certain parties hope will come to be associated with me later on down the road. You will note another poster chimed in and used the name 'Appy' this is a derivation of my nick and was often used at BOTF and would be known to people from there. This writer inadvertantly betrayed this without thinking.
I mention these things because I think highly of the bloggers here and thank you for drawing attention to my work. I have had to turn my comments at Smoking Mirrors to 'Moderate' in order to keep these cockroaches off of my site. It works very well. You get an email and you just click on 'publish' or 'reject' and that's it.
I am sorry that this troll followed my article over there. he must have checked through- "Link this site." on my site.
Disinfo practitioners like this are often working at a different agenda than may immediately appear. I'm assuming that most of what you are catching here is part of a larger effort that will fail but is annoying none-the-less.
Anyway, good luck with your site. It looks terrific and congrats on getting mentioned at wrh. DO NOT stop blogging, just delete or go to 'Moderate'. We don't want to lose your imput.
We just have to soldier on pilgrims. As long as the truth is our guide we won't get lost.
Les Visible
hey les,
thx for the support and the clarification. i've had thoughts resembling yours re app and thor: don't trust the surface. and thx for the piece. keep up the good work.
peace
readers, in case you missed this, note:
miss r, Sun Mar 05, 05:25:21 PM EST
"I do not associate what you believe with that of Thor/Appy, HOWEVER, when you have such one-sided and double-standardy posts, then of course there naturally will be the association between what you write and what Thor writes."
les visible Sun Mar 05, 08:03:17 PM EST
"The virulent anti-semite The Appolonian is a blind that certain parties hope will come to be associated with me later on down the road. You will note another poster chimed in and used the name 'Appy' this is a derivation of my nick and was often used at BOTF and would be known to people from there. This writer inadvertantly betrayed this without thinking."
I have never been at whatever site you are referring to. Your further posts just prove that in fact you, JC, are an antisemite who claims to be "open minded."
Whatever.
Miss R, thanks for your comment. I'm glad to see you back.
I'm sorry that you feel that the posts on Israel are "one sided" and "double standardy." I don't think that they are.
Israel is in a unique position of power. With it, comes unique responsibilities. So, it is no surprise that Israel is judged harshly when it fails to do what only it (and not the Palestinians) can accomplish.
That said, there is not a natural association between what I say and what Thor says. My arguments against Israel are political in nature, grounded in policy, not theology. You would rather not address my policy arguments, so you prefer to dismiss them out of hand as "double-standardy."
Enough on that.
You make a good point though, that the main thrust of this blog is about how the monetary system is abused by a handful of people to enslave the multitudes. And I will endeavor to focus as much as possible on that.
But, I will not shrink from taking Israel to task for its actions, especially when it seems to be taking America along for the ride with its misguided policies.
Criticizing Israeli policy is as anti-Israeli, or anti-Jewish as criticizing the Bush administration would be anti-American or anti-Christian. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Again, thanks for your kind words and support on blogging.
-----
Thor, I am a semite. So, your suggestion that I embrace anti-semitism is absurd.
-----
Les, many thanks for your kind words, support and advice. It truly means much to me.
I tried moderating comments before but it takes the spontaneity and openness out of communications, a quality that I treasure.
I will keep blogging and reminding people that readers speak for themselves and not for the site. We'll be moving to a stand alone domain where readers can rate other readers and block out comments they don't want to read.
That should make it easier on readers, while allowing commentators to get their two cents worth in, even if it's not worth that.
Qrswave,
I beg to differ that Israel is in a unique position of power. In fact, Arab Israelis have a higher quality of life in Israel than Arabs do in every single other Middle Eastern country. Their life span is longer, the infant mortality is lower, and they even have seats in the Knesset. In fact, Israel is the one democracy in the Middle East. It has the highest standards of human rights in the Middle East.
And yet you refuse to speak of the honor killings, the slaughtering of tens of thousands - nay - millions - of Muslims by fellow Muslims, and the horrendous human rights abuses done in other nations.
It is all Israel, all the time.
Please tell me why this is. I really am perplexed about it. The constant harping about Israel's so-called egregious human rights abuses, combined with blaming them for 9/11...kinda makes the blog seem anti-Israel.
You know, Miss R, your comments would be a whole lot more convincing if they were grounded in reality. I wish that they were. But, they're not.
Just last year four Arab Israelis were shot dead on the bus by a Jewish Israeli. And two days ago an Israeli family threw firecrackers in the Annunciation Church. So, your imaginary world of equality and peace in Israel is just that - imaginary. No doubt there are some Israelis who want peace. But, there is no question that some of them are very extreme and very racist against Arabs.
And the notion that Israelis are not in control is pure fantasy. As we discuss this, they are considering unilateral engagement, AGAIN.
Let's face it. The Israeli government does whatever it wants. They have the power to make their plans a reality.
AND, Palestinians WISH that Israeli human rights abuses were 'so-called.' They're not. They're REAL. Here are some examples, if you care to see for yourself, just how real they are.
I warn you, though, that these images are not for the faint-hearted. And, no one is condoning indiscriminate violence against Israeli civilians. So, don't even go there. I do not advocate for Palestinians that which I do not demand for Israelis, as well. But, there is an underlying problem that must be addressed first and foremost - and that is the occupation. Israelis are in control.
I don't want to argue with you. It's a waste of my time and yours. But, stop trying to paint me and my site as something it's not. It's untrue and offensive.
I AM a semite. I cannot be anit-semitic. And I have no problem with Israel existing. I have a problem with their continuing occupation of Palestinian land and their brutal and dehumanizing treatment of Palestinians.
It has nothing to do with Judaism and everything to do with GEO-POLITICS. I have always had and continue to have friends who are Jewish whom I love. You ought to know.
QRS,
How many of the killings of Palestinians were in fact aimed at terrorists?
That is my point. They aim at terrorists. Suicide bombers aim at civilians. There is a world of difference there.
In fact, more Muslims have killed Muslims than Israel ever has killed.
Yet you ignore this. Why? Seriously, why?
Why the moral equivalence (no, sorry, you are ELEVATING suicide bombing) between suicide bombing and targetted killings to terrorists? There is a world of difference.
In fact, Arab Israelis have a better standard of life in Israel than they have anywhere else in the Middle East. No focus on this.
Why?
Israel is in control of Israel. They are not in control of the Middle East. Just look at any map - you will see a teeny Israel surrounded by massive oil rich Arab nations. This is a Middle East that has terrorized Jews and forced them out of their nations. This is a Middle East that forces women in burkas. This is a Middle East that engages in honor killings. This is a Middle East whose governments shoots and aims and kills civilians. It is also a Middle East dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Should Israel lose one battle - they are obliterated.
And yet a tiny, non-oil rich Israel somehow has all the power? Huh?
what are you talking about? I am referring to power in Palestine.
And regarding what you euphamistically call "targeted killings," maybe we should just follow suit here in America and do away with the criminal justice system.
After, all what's the point of determining beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law that a person committed the crime? Nonsense.
As soon as the police suspect they have the right murderer they should conduct a targeted killing; the colatteral damage will just have to be tolerated. Let's see how much the ACLU likes that.
Israel is at war with the Palestinians, so your analogy is false.
Furthermore, why no acknowledgement of the atrocity of suicide bombing of women and children in Israel?
A legal technicality cannot cure a moral defect.
And, yes I did. You just chose to gloss over it.
See, 12:57AM: "And, no one is condoning indiscriminate violence against Israeli civilians. So, don't even go there. I do not advocate for Palestinians that which I do not demand for Israelis, as well."
Furthermore, Palestinians have far more power than they pretend to have.
They have turned down two state solutions repeatedly, most recently in 2001 with Barak/Arafat, and starting in 1948 when the UN proposed a two state solution.
Palestinians will soon be a majority in Jordan. They would be accepted with open arms in any Middle Eastern country - except the autocratic leaders prefer to use Palestinians as a "wedge issue."
Meanwhile, Palestinians suffer. I would hate to be a Palestinian - their lives suck. But is it the fault of Israel, or is it the fault of the Palestinian leaders and the autocratic leaders in the Middle East?
QRS,
Just read your latest post.
Glad to see you finally say that suicide bombing is awful. I would like to see more posts about this, rather than a borderline obsession with Israel's wrongs.
I am not an appologist for all of Israel's actions. I am not saying they are a perfect nation - of course they are not. But this focus on Israel to the exclusion of other issues just is not helping anything.
And one more thing, QRS...
It is not just a legal technicality. It is a fact.
Israel is at war with the Palestinians. They are dealing with those who are suicide bombing, and in response, they sometimes overreact.
But what is to be done instead? Sit down and take suicide bombing? I am at a loss. Lay down and play dead?
Because every time peace is possible, suicide bombing occurs. Every time the Israelis respond by killing those responsible for organizing the bombers, the bombing then stops.
Clearly there are Palestinian leaders who are dedicated to the destruction of Israel and against peace.
I blame those people for perpetuating violence unto the Palestinian people, and ensuring that the Israelis have reason to bomb those suspected of organizing suicide bombing. THOSE are the true monsters.
In the meantime, Israel has the fewest collateral damage of any country facing comparable harms. They have the highest standards of human rights, and a system of courts that forbids torture for being used in interrogations.
No focus on this.
Why?
That's just not true.
Israeli and Palestinian death tolls compared.
Israelis admit systematic torture of Palestinians.
The facts speak for themselves.
The facts do not speak for themselves.
Those stats do not speak to the percentage of Palestinians who were killed that were suicide bomb planners. When you look at that, the stats look quite different.
Should these people go before a trial? I don't know, and it is a moral dilemma of mine. But then again, it is a war, and I really don't know how easy it would be (or how the world would look at it), if Israel went into the territories and dragged out those suspected of suicide bomb planning in order to bring them to trial. I suspect such actions would result in heavy gun fire and may lead to more death.
As far as the report on torture - it speaks to the time period from 1988-1992, and since then, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled torture may never be used - ever. I want to further add that the PLO has a horrible and repeated history of torture.
So so much for that.
Meanwhile, Israel's actions, given they are in war, is actually better than those of any other country in a comparable situation. I repeat - better than any other country in a comparable situation.
I repeat that more Muslims kill Muslims than Israel ever killed.
There are human rights atrocities around the world, and in fact, Palestinians suffer far less than the claim of what they suffer.
We live in horrible times, what can I say?
Furthermore, how many Palestinian lives have been saved by Israel? The number is quite staggering. Israel allows Palestinians into Israel to seek medical treatment. Of course, this has been taken advantage of, as there have been patients that strapped suicide bombs to their chest when they went to seek treatment. And yet how many Palestinians' lives have been saved when getting medical treatment in Israel?
How many progressive Palestinians actually prefer to live in Israel to Palestine? I am referring to those who suffer from horrible abuse for being gay, or those indepedent women who perhaps want to be sexually free. I am also speaking to women in general.
How greatly has the Palestinian education system improved since Israel has taken over the occupied territories? It has increased greatly indeed, and as a matter of fact, Palestinians in occupied territories are more educated than most Muslims in the Middle East.
Israel is far better than it is given credit for. THAT is my point, and it is painful to see post after post that only focuses on the negative.
You people realize that "fraksickened" IS Les Visible himself, correct? It's well known by the posters on The Fray at Slate.com. Sad, really. Very, very sad.
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