< HOME  Thursday, March 23, 2006

Don't Believe In Islam? So What.

The BBC reported Monday that an Afghan man is being tried in a court in the capital, Kabul, for converting from Islam to Christianity.

Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could face the death sentence under Sharia law unless he recants.

This is a preposterous and unjust interpretation of the Quran as my friend Subhan Ali points out:
No verse in the Qur'an explicitly states that there is an earthly penalty for apostasy. The Qur'an states that apostasy happens and that Allah despises it. See verses 2:256, 3:72, 3:90, 4:48, 4:137 and 5:54 which deal with apostasy directly and which do not prescribe any earthly punishment or death.

The verses (as translated by Yusuf Ali) are:
  • "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Sura 2:256)

  • "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way." (Sura 4:137)

  • "O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things." (Sura 5:54)
The quotation from Surah An-Nisa', 4:137, seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would not be possible if the person were executed after the first apostasy.

The most straight-forward interpretation of the Qur'anic injunction that there is no compulsion in religion [is] at odds with the death penalty as well, and leads [Muslims who follow only the Qur'an] to reject any legal or other human sanctions against apostates.
If you cannot force someone to believe, how can you possibly justify punishing them for not believing? It makes no sense.

The Quran directs Muslims to punish people for their conduct, not their beliefs. To do otherwise is not only unjust, but absurd.


UPDATE: The charges against him were dropped.

Something tells me this had more to do with show biz than apostasy.


At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger Yukkione said...

great piece lot of new info. What I find absurd is how they say that this man is now mentaly unfit so they can't try him. What about the next guy?

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

They say he's mentally unfit? Do you have a link to the story?

If that's the case, it might be that reasoned individuals are doing anything they can to prevent the injustice of him being tried and possibly executed, but cannot attack the misguided policies head on, at the moment, because other political tensions at play. But, that's just speculation.

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do u bother w. this story? Who cares?--and what exactly is significance? Obviously the local Muslims want their people to be loyal--what's wrong w. that? Thanks, Thor

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

I am sure others care, if not you.

Threats and intimidation through execution is not a very effective way to garner loyalty. But, it is a very effective way to paint Islam as an extreme and coercive ideology, which cannot be further from the truth, as Islam advocates tolerance, peace and brotherhood for humanity.

These people are doing a great disservice to Islam by interpreting the Quran so intolerantly.

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger jhbowden said...

"By their fruits ye shall know them." -- Jebus

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

Do you ever speak forthrightly? Or, is your tongue forked?

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger jhbowden said...

That phrase is commonplace and easy to understand.

It comes from the seventh chapter of the Gospel of Matthew. Jebus talked about how a good tree brings forth good fruit, and a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. Mohammedans have produced a huuuuuuge bodycount in recent history from Algeria to India to the Phillipines to Sudan to Russia. Yet people insist it is a "religion of peace" rather than take responsibility and help defeat those who push a totalitarian interpretation of the faith.

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No matter what else Jason, Islam understands an objective ("God-created") reality--much like Christians, if I'm understanding correctly.

Jews' Talmud is quite different--everything is what Jews say it is, meaning the topmost rabbis (speaking for the collective people, as Jews believe they are): reality is subjective, according to them; thus do they justify their incessant lies. So what do u say to that analysis, Jason? Thanks, Thor

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger jhbowden said...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein

Believing what is printed in book technology can be divinely inspired is comparably rational to believing in a sacred piece of software or a sacred Hollywood movie. Holy books are epistemological black holes -- why are their the claims justified? The books say so, the pious say.

I don't care if people believe that reality is fundamentally physical (objective), spiritual (subjective) or contains aspects of both. Despite what is written in ancient literature, human beings cannot walk on water, do not live again after they die, do not ascend into the sky with chariots, and other claims easily discerned as false.

At Thursday, March 23, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

Yes, Thor, Islam understands an objective - God created - reality.

Jason, a wise man once said: "I would rather live life believing there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live thinking there is no God and die to find out there is."

At Friday, March 24, 2006, Blogger Red Tulips said...


Why would god care one way or another whether lowly humans believes in it?

We are a cosmic blip on the radar screen, a fart in the history of time. What makes us so signficant that God really should care one crap whether we believe in it? And let me further ask that if God does care, then this is a very weak God. If God is so all-knowing and all-encompassing, then why does it matter if a peon believes in God or not? Why should it make any difference?

And for that matter, what is the purpose of praying, other than the psychological enjoyment of praying?

How are prayers answered in an age of genocide? Why are one man's prayers somehow better than another? In a world with no rhyme or reason to it, how in any way have prayers been proven effective? And if prayers are not effective, then why should believing in God be effective, even in the "afterlife"?

Assuming there is an afterlife (massive assumption), why is God so petty that it would say "this otherwise righteous person goes to hell solely because of a lack of belief in me."

And which belief? Monotheism? Polytheism? Which version of monotheism? Why is one version right and another wrong? Why would God give a crap if one is believe in and another is not believed in?

In short, I realize there is a need to want to believe that all of this matters. But where is there any indication that we are anything other than walking bags of flesh and bone, that dissolves into the earth upon death?

And finally, believing in God has many external problems associated with it, so don't kid yourself. It means you do not engage in activities that the false moralists found in the religious texts say are bad. It means you go through life praying - spending precious hours out of the day PRAYING - when this accomplishes nothing other than waste time. It means living a life of fear - "I cannot do this because Angry God will get me in the afterlife."

At Friday, March 24, 2006, Blogger Red Tulips said...

And Thor, Jews also believe in a God-created reality. I don't believe in it, but I would if I believed what I was taught in Hebrew School.

I mean, Jesus himself was a Jew, and Christianity and Islam are themselves derivatives of Judaism. The basic belief system is the same for all three of them.

At Friday, March 24, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Miss R," Comedian, Strikes Again
(Mighty Thor, 24 Mar 06)

"Miss R" u just lie and lie and lie (like the typical Jew), and u thus demonstrate why Jews are so disgusting and hated by all peoples--except (maybe) the traitors and accomplices among gentiles u're paying off presently, like the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR--see JBS.org), Falwell, Robertson, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, et al.

Judaism is lying and criminal conspiracy, collectivists the topmost conspirators. And Christ warned against ur insanity for which warning u murdered him--ur putrid Talmud celebrates this murder.

And I already gave my references and arguments against ur stupid, brainless, repetitive lies. One needs only ck Mike A. Hoffman II's "Judaism's Strange Gods," also Ted Pike's "Israel: Our Duty--Our Dilemma.

Repeating so stupidly ur idiotic lies is merely ur way of programming ur filthy Jew minds--and these lies u also want to impose on gentiles by means of repetition, like the infamous holohoax lies by which u cover ur murders of Russian Christians of 20s, Ukrainians of 30s, Germans of 40s, and u murdering scum were also behind the great Armenian and Christian massacres in Turkey just before the first World War.

Talmudists believe that GOD WORSHIPS THE JEWS--totally differently fm Christians and Muslims as I understand, who think rather it is they who worship God.

U're such a stupid liar, "Miss R": CHRIST ABSOLUTELY REPUDIATED THE PHARISEES (THEREFORE JEWS, IDIOT) as in Gospel of MARK ch. 7:1-8; ck also Gosp. JOHN 8:44, and again most definitively at Gosp. MATT, entire chapter 23.

As theologian, Miss R, u're most ignorant fool: Christianity absolutely rejects Judaism and its God, the Christian an absolute (Hegelian) antithesis of Talmud, Christian God Trinitarian, the second person most absolutely repudiated by Pharisees, and Christ repudiating the Pharisees.

The Jews claim Moses, but Christ demonstrates Jews reject Moses, the Talmud a repudiation of proper Mosaic understanding. I'll let the Muslims speak for themselves, but I'm sure they also believe in OBJECTIVE REALITY, humans properly worshipping God.

Basic belief system couldn't be more different, Christ preaching objectivity and honesty; Jews hating such objective reality, pretending God favors them and their stupid lies, wishful thinking, narcissism, subjectivity, hubris, hystericism, and murderous insanity.

CONCLUSION: Judaism is excellent war-strategy however, strategic hystericism. Thus Jews lie to gentiles as matter of course (war-hysteria). And this insanity only works in the Spenglerian "Decline of the West," which happens deterministically and in cycles according to New Testament Conspiracy theory-analytic-template. Pls see further essays by Apollonian on NewNation.org under "commentary" heading. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor

At Saturday, March 25, 2006, Blogger AJ said...

Jesus Christ Thor.
Get a grip.

At Sunday, March 26, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey "aj" "get a grip" urself: I gave u sufficient references on Talmud. Now then ck for urself if Talmud isn't a warplan for Jews against rest of human race, called "goyim," cattle. See also JewishTribalReview.org Thor

At Monday, March 27, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

UPDATE: The charges against him were dropped.

Something tells me this had more to do with show biz than apostasy.

At Monday, March 27, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When the apostles spoke in tongues in Jerusalem on Pentecost, they were ridiculed to be "full of wine".

When the apostle Paul addressed the Athenians on Mars Hill, he was rediculed as well. So what's new?

I am soooo glad there is a brother in Christ in Afghanistan. They may well declare he is mentally deranged, but millions of Christians all over the world know he has the spirit of Christ. May he preach the true gospel of peace with enthusiasm. I know many pray for him.

At Saturday, May 06, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the Odinson forgot to take his medication.

At Tuesday, November 14, 2006, Blogger Eric Vaughan said...

Surely a dog beaten by everyone who wears a cross will associate that symbol with pain. Still, a bottle of water that some mean person has written "urine" on will be drank by those lost in the hottest desert. Eventually. While not every tree bears good fruit, the hungry will most certainly find those that will.


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