< HOME  Sunday, August 06, 2006

What if everything you believed was a lie?

What if you woke up tomorrow and everything you had thought was true was a deception? A deception formed by people that stood to profit from your ignorance. Not just on one small area but every facet of your existence. Would you want to know? Or, would you be content with the life you had before you discovered the truth? Could you close your eyes and act as if nothing ever happened? What if you could see the ways that you have been deceived and the way that those that came before you were made to believe a lie? How valuable would the truth become? Would it make you change your habits? your routines? the way you talk or think or speak? Would it impact you or would you brush it off and carry on with business as usual?

What if after waking up you decided to respond to that truth? What if you started studying history and world events and, like a string of pearls, events were no longer random but contained a sequence? What if that sequence was repeating? What if while studying these events they began to seem familiar?

This was my response to a poster on Holocaust denial - Zionist style:

"Oh the holocaust was real. How many is 'a' question that remains unsolved but they DID die." Hold on a second and keep reading before you count me out.

In Nazi Germany IBM was employed to 'create' a way to gather and process information pertaining to the 'Jews' being interned, that's what the 'number' that was seared into their forearm was all about. What information resided at the other end of that number is what needs to be examined. The information was heritage, 'religious' affiliation, and whether or not they accepted or opposed zionism.

In excess of 80% of European Jewry was OPPOSED to ZIONISM and the creation of the Palestinian state of 'israel'. That is where the 'halutzim' came in. The halutzim were the younger generation that was leaning towards zionism and abandoning the ways of their fathers. The halutzim were preferable for the 'exodus' because they were the 'willing' workers which were to do the blue collar work to establish Palestinian 'israel'. The older generations were adamant about assimilation and zionists hated them worse than the Nazis. They were the ones that would prevent the creation of the zionist state....unless something was done about them. The number, whatever it was, was of the assimilationists that made up 80% of European Jewry.

It's helpful to be familiar with the teachings of Theodor Herzl, Max Nordau, Vladamir Jabotinsky, and the work of Sam Cohen. I would suggest The Transfer Agreement by Edwin Black and Der Judenstaat to better understand some of the nuances of the pre-positioning of the holocaust that would later take place.

Herzl's theory in the creation of the zionist state was based on a 3-tiered plan; first the 'society of the Jews' which was the workers or halutzim and the 'principal' wealth that they held; second, the 'Jewish company' which would oversee the transfer of that wealth and its investiture; and lastly, the 'aliyah' of the wealthy to preserve the 'elite'.

If you believe (or not) that the holocaust was merely about Hitler's (read zionist) desire to purge Germany of its assimilated Jewish population then you aren't paying attention because the zionist plan was more successful than anything that Hitler could have ever conceived. Don't believe me? Sit back and watch.

Zionist desire was not limited to erradicating the assimilated Orthodox Jewry that opposed zionist realization of a state. They also wanted to destroy the German middle class which had done nothing but accept Jews into their society and divide the Jewish nation. What happened AFTER WWII? Germany was devastated and made to take responsibilty for the war and repay unreasonable 'war reparations.' AGAIN - it too was divided into democratic and socialist zones. Zionists would have said something along the lines of 'mission accomplished.'

Taking that information into account, please apply it to modern events and American society and you will begin to see somewhat of a parallel, if not exact.

I have spent a good deal of the last 2 years studying history with an emphasis on zionism and WW I&II, the banking system, Bolshevism, and America's relation to all of these events. I'm not just throwing out bits of information but well researched material. I may not be an expert but considering how much of history is indoctrination to nationalism and has little or nothing to do with 'education' or truth a 'clean slate' may be preferable to one that's already full.

Yesterday, qrswave posted this asking whether Hiz'b'allah was a Mossad operation or not. YES they are and as it was reported 'israeli intelligence' has 'significantly infiltrated them'. They are behind Hamas, as well, according to this article - as well as behind 'al Qaeda'. So if it's not 'terrorists' we are fighting then who is it?

What if . . .

What if as you were reading someone's post you started to connect the dots? Let's consider something. In 1932 the zionists were itching to have their 'state' at any cost, sparing no expense. They wanted to destroy the middle class Germans because their military was the strongest in the world and their culture and economy were among the world's finest. By this time Boleshevism, which was initiated by zionist 'jews', and Jacob Schiff had usurped the power of the U.S.S.R. so Germany was the last remaining power to oppose them. Well what about the United States you might ask? Well, they had other plans for them/us.

In 1932, zionists were in negotiations with Germany for the transfer of 'Jews' to Palestine, but certain elements were threatening a boycott. Zionists hated the assimilated Jews of Germany because, with their influence, they could successfully sway opinions to oppose the creation of the zionist state. From the beginning, Zionists had no intention of 'saving' Jews that were opposed to zionism which was the vast majority of European Jewry. The zionist movement knew that they were going nowhere until they could remove the oppostion. But . . .

What if you wanted to get even your opposition to help you attain your goals? Would that not add insult to injury?

Let's back up a bit before we proceed further. The report qrswave quoted mentions most if not all of the 'israelis' killed have been Arabs. But, the headlines tell of how 'israel' suffers from Hiz'b'allah attacks. Does it not add insult to injury to hear that the rockets are killing their own people, much in the way that most 'terrorist' attacks have been against Muslim populations instead of zionist or American targets? The world certainly isn't dissecting the information they receive. So with this sensory overload no one can make heads or tails of it . . . but let's break out the microscope.

What if . . .

In 1932, the Betars' uniforms were almost identical to the Germans in every detail. What if this was not a coincidence? What if, during the lead up to the boycott and the claims of atrocities being committed by Hitler, there was an agent provocatuer at work? What if zionists, who already hated the assimilated Jews, targeted them? Who would know the difference? Of course Hitler would deny it, but the pictures and stories were on the front page. What about that? What would the persecuted Jew say to reporters asking questions? So even with their opposition to zionism by feeding the 'anti-Semitic' fever with their 'atrocity story' they were helping the zionist movement to reach their goal of aliyah to Palestine.

Hard to swallow? Consider the deaths of the Arabs in 'israel'. I could see perhaps one instance being coincidental but its not. Here. Here. Here. And who knows how many more there are. How could so many Arabs possibly be killed by accident by a rocket that has absolutely no reliabilty or aiming mechanism? The sheer improbability of one rocket inflicting so much damage is like winning the lottery. Hiz'b'allah becomes the focus and their deeds are hard to refute because these people are REALLY dead. But who is benefitting from their deaths? If they do in fact control both sides of the conflict then who beside the Lebanese and Palestinians are their victims? You and I and our 'opinion', our voice, our opposition to their wickedness. Remember the silence of the assimilated Jews of Europe. They never had a chance to figure out what was happening until it was too late. Connect the dots before it's too late.

The 'holocaust denial' movement can be deceptive. People did die, but not the people that we are told died. Those that died opposed the zionist creation of 'israel' and the state is the evidence because their voices were silenced. What if this wasn't the first time they used this tactic? What if this was one of only many in the arsenal of 'deception'?

You might think that it's not helpful to question everything. Where would it end? But, as human beings, our very existence depends on the accuracy of the information we rely upon. So, ask yourself - would you rather live AND die based on lies or on truth?

79 Comments:

At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

TRUTH.

But, sometimes it's so hard to tell the difference.

Take Hiz'b'Allah, for example. There's no doubt that there is a legitimate resistance out there. But, how much of what we hear ascribed to them is true and how much is just propaganda to fit into the Big Lie that the resistance poses a formidable threat to the Zionist state.

Zionists frame the war as an existential one. But, that is a LIE. Neither Hizbullah, nor Hamas has ever posed an existential threat to Israel. It is Israel that threatens its own existence with its perpetual lies and aggression.

Literally, they fight the truth - which if known by the world would end in the demise of this racist and belligerent entity once and for all.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger SydneySailor said...

Be sure to read the 1984 edition of "The Transfer Agreement" by Edwin Black. This version, the first, was the version for which the JDL issued a contract on Black's life. [Source: Jewish book buyer AT THE TIME (April 1984) for Scribner's in NYC, who urged this writer to pre-order a copy, calling it "the most important book ever written about our history," and said the NYT Review of Books, and Publisher's Weekly had been ordered to denounce it. She knew of the contract put out by the terrorist group JDL, had been warned internally about it.]
There were 15,000 copies initially. All bought up except for library subscriptions and pre-orders. No reprint without editing changes. So you need to search obscure used book sources to find one. The 1984 copy has lots of black and white photos. Publisher MacMillan. Later versions have been edited, so beware of that.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger Amelopsis said...

Another post from your very aptly named site.
Excellent that you're spreading the truthful facts.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger DarthJewdi said...

Wow! Now that is something to think about. I always knew the millions of people were not killed because they were "Jews" but I never suspected the real reason. It really does seem that most people want to live in a fog. A clear vision of what is really behind contemporary events and the events of history terrifies the average person. I believe it is because once you know the truth you become responsible: you can no longer plead ignorance. What would the average American do if they understood that Israel is actually an enemy of the United States of America. The foreign policies and wars of the "Neocons" are destructive to America but are exactly what the Zionists want. Why do US elected officials cater so often to the wishes of Israel and so seldom to the wishes of their own constituency? Nothing is by coincidence. I took notice that while the US public was being LIED to about the reason for declaring war on the good people of Iraq 48% of us were still against the war. Exactly 3 men in Congress voted against this ILLEGAL, IMMORAL and UNGODLY war of aggression and conquest. Who, exactly, represented the 48%? (which now stands at 72% according to MANY polls) America knows much more now than it did when the invasion was launched and it is becoming increasingly difficult to argue in favor of more bloodshed. This is why we see more and more false flag attacks like Sept 11 (which was used to justify our illegal war) and the London bombings (used later to justify the murder of innocent human beings in the “War on Terror”). The warmongers are becoming more desperate to justify their murderous operations, as more people become aware of their crimes. The rats are being cornered. Unfortunately, these rats have MONEY and lots of it.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

"Unfortunately, these rats have MONEY and lots of it."

The question is, will good people around the world continue to do ther bidding in exchange for it.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger kdaves said...

Excellent information, and this is much closer to reasonable in terms of explaining all of the coincidences and anomalies.

I know there is an element behind zionism that is probably not even jewish.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

"Yesterday, qrswave posted this asking whether Hiz'b'allah was a Mossad operation or not. YES they are."

and yr proof for this is what? this "new" report of the success of the IOF and israeli "intelligence"?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3278665,00.html

According to the officials, the building itself was completely destroyed and the IDF was checking the results of the strike – whether the senior Hizbullah officials Israel was targeting were actually at the scene. Additionally, a senior IDF officer said that Israeli intelligence had significantly infiltrated Hizbullah. (Hanan Greenberg)

i know that a lot of jewish people like to believe they are behind everything, but come on. they're megalomanics with delusions of grandeur, that's understandable. that they're being played becuase of that is what's stunning here. they buy into their own propaganda, and the world is eating it raw.

what i find interesting about history, western history specifically, is the fact that every time people are about to rise against tyrranny the "jews" get blamed and then progrommed. and the PsTB go on pretty much as before. they've been in power for centuries. they have dynastic lines attesting to this. but they're white angle-saxon protestants, also known as free-skinned men, and are therefore beyond reproach, right?

they were taken in by the "jews." yeah, right.

let me make something clear here. i don't believe the zionists in israel are not guilty for their crimes. what i do believe is that they are the perfect foil for the PsTB in the west.

"In 1932, the Betars' uniforms were almost identical to the Germans in every detail. What if this was not a coincidence?"

it wasn't, fascism was very popular. it's a very european, social-darwinian, western political ideology. it was based on the revival of the holy roman empire. roman not jewish: think senate, congress, go look at those buildings one more time eh.

that a certain part of a certain generation of "jews" decided to suck up to the PsTB whom they, according to you, hated so much certainly signifies something pathological, but are you saying the west is entirely innocent of its crimes? they were what? fooled by the "jews" yet again? the zionist must love anyone who believes this, it adds a lot of pizzazz to their self-regard, that's for sure.

what i see is that the PsTB (have a look a royal and dutch shell for instance) just loved the idea of using the "jews" as a wedge in the door and a sledgehammer against arab/muslims, while at the same time they could profess innocence and democracy and freedom and "no, we've given up colonisation and imperialism, we're more enlightened now," and human rights and get to play the part of "eternal peacemaker and promoter of civilization, mom and apple pie.

zion is a WESTERN FRONT. if the puppet, as sharon did, suddenly up and says "i'm in control here, you immediately drop your jaw and go "oh, no. the ventroloquist's possessed!"?

you say the " assimilated Jews of Europe" and i'll add those in america are silent. well duh. they're ASSIMILATED. they got with the program. they're like michael jackson they want to be white so BAD they'll do anything, even pander to rapture hungry xtian fundmentalists like pat robertson.

of course you'll say he's a jew, bush is a jew, hitler, stalin, napoleon, any number of popes, rasputin, vlad dracul, the jacobins, the jesuits, the pahroahs, nebuchadnezzar, alexander the great, nero, caligula, caesar, beethoven, shakespeare, mozart, da vinci, gengiz khan, mao, and quetzalcoatl.

right.

them white angelic anglo saxon protestants is just innocent little woolly sheepies who done been fooled most foully agin and agin, the poor things.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

let me make myself clear:

do i believe the goombah (zion) is resposible for what he was sent to do? yes. BUT ultimatly i want to lay it on the one who hired and instructed the goombah: the damned godfather, capice?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger kdaves said...

I went away for a while and kept thinking: If Hezbollah is really Israel, then why all the good acts of Hezbollah (Hospitals, schools...) for the people of Lebanon.

I was having trouble squaring this until I realized it fit perfectly. How else to make Hizbollah more effective than by making them appear to be exactly what Israel wants us to believe they are.

Then I remembered something I saw recently in some report about Hezbollah. They were pointing out the hospitals they've set up and visited one and the narrator noted the "surprisingly" high quality of the equipment. Now who in the middle east would do that?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

on man oh man oh man, the "genius" of zion eh?

next bush'll confess he was taken in, have the jews rounded up in those camps of his along with the muslim traitors who support hizballah, and all the happy litlle whitefolk can barbecue in central park and have a parade down fifth avenue while the sing "free at last."

great

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

JC are you honestly trying to say that Israel isn't to blame for slaughtering Lebanese? But that in fact, this whole time I've been sitting here thinking I was a woolly sheepie who done been fooled most foully again and again, and it was ME who was slaughtering these people in Lebanon?

Or were you just trying to completely derail the point with a bunch of bullshit about "stop blaming the jews for everyhing", when clearly no one is doing that?

No one is blaming the jews for everything. No one is blaming ANYONE for "everything". Specific events in history are being blamed on zionists and those who would use the zionists as tools to benefit.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger Sam said...

From ZNet website http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=2637§ionID=1

I quote Michey Z; November 18, 2002
“During World War II, Yitzhak Shamir (nee Yezernitsky) was a member of the Stern Gang. Led first by Avraham Stern and later by Shamir, the group called for a state that extended from the Nile to the Euphrates and proposed an alliance with Hitler to bring this about. In the fall of 1940, Stern met with one of Mussolini's agents in Jerusalem. By January 1941, he put out feelers to the Nazis and dispatched an agent to meet with two of Hitler's emissaries in Beirut. "Stern's proposal," explains Christopher Hitchens, "which was rashly put in writing, began by establishing his ideological common ground with Nazism, expressing sympathy with the Hitlerite goal of a Jew-free Europe and speaking of 'the goodwill of the German Reich government...toward Zionist activity inside Germany and towards the Zionist emigration plans.' " Stern proposed the "establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis" and offered that he, Shamir, and the rest of the Stern Gang would "actively take part in the war on Germany's side." As a result of this proposed alliance, members of Stern's group would react favorably-in public-to any news of Nazi victories. Even well into 1941, after Stern was killed in a shoot-out and as more and more became known of Nazi racial policies, Shamir took control of the Stern Gang-never renouncing its support for Hitler. In 1986, Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel.”

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

brook,

this is what you said:

"JC are you honestly trying to say that Israel isn't to blame for slaughtering Lebanese."

and this is waht i said.

"let me make myself clear:

"do i believe the goombah (zion) is resposible for what he was sent to do? yes. BUT ultimatly i want to lay it on the one who hired and instructed the goombah: the damned godfather, capice?"

which part of that do you NOT understand?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

about zion:

the REASON the WESt backs zion is becuase xion is run by people who've ASSIMILATED.

"they're LIKE US. or at least they try hard to be the dear things, of only they'd accept jesus as lord. whereas the ragheads, they're mideaval."

that's the reasoning.

as for the "blaming zion for everything" bit.

my point is that zion has the ear of the PsTB, i grant that. does zion CONTROL the PsTB as this article and other posts and comments eem to imply. i doubt it.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

brook,

someone paid the goombah to do what he's doing. someone has the clout to prevent others from stopping the goombah from doing what he's doing.

THAT someone is responsible for what he paid the goombah to do.

clear?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

You wrote your "let me make myself clear:" after I had already started replying.

Zionism might not be the root of the *specific* problems in questions but there is definitely strong evidence in these situations that zionism is being used as a tool. It seems that it wouldn't be a bad tool to eliminate to help the development of peace.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

It's pretty confusing if you post 3 times in a row and I end up replying to something in the first post that you clarified in a later post.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

"there is definitely strong evidence in these situations that zionism is being used as a tool."

my point exactly.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

apologies all round

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

So all of the obviously evil people who fall under zionism should be ignored instead of detained and interrogated while we try to determine who benefits from their manipulation?

Is that your point?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

no the tool part is my point. there's a hand holding that tool. whose hand is it? that's also my point.

as far as i can tell from the propaganda it seems the PsTB want us to believe that they are not responsible for supporting, funding and being all happy with zions crimes.

they'd love it if the wold decided to roun d up all the jews while THEY, the PsTB, offer contrition and profess innocence, saying they've been duped and jesus saves!

and we all go, ok, those evil zionists they fool everyone.

that's what usually happens.

the jews get blamed and royalty remains.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

What is it exactly that PsTB stands for? I thought I knew from context but I thought you were talking about christians and the christians I know support and smyphatize with jews stronger than other christians...

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

Just to be clear, I'm not claiming that you meant christians in general. I'm just saying that christianity appeared to be one of the main tools of this group.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

Powers That Be. i think what i'm trying to say is the the jew is the ultimate patsy.

i'm thinking what if say bush turned round and discovered the "truth," you know, his god suddenly speaks to him outh there in the wilderness of crawford and he returns and announces that he's been fooled all along by the jews?

cause it seems from my reading of how things are being played out that the zionists are being set up as the true hand behind 911, iraq, afghanistan, now lebanon, etc.

i'm not saying the PsTB disapprove of what's happening in lebanon, they're acutally promoting it.

but what if they "confess"? what if they turn round and say "it was the jews fooled us." and everyone agree to round them up thinking if we get rid of these guys everything'll be ok?

what happens then is what's happened so many times before. the tyrants get their scapegoat, they get their "moment on the road to damascus" and they STAY in power.

press repeat.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger duarte1 said...

Hello all: Well it's much worst than this. All that we believed can be *PROVED* to be wrong. Like the 9-11 staged fake terrorism, the JFK death, and other crimes done by capitalists of this nation and of the world :-)

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger quasimodo said...

Zionism is just the latest of many isms, and schisms of what is really only plain old everyday garden variety JUDAISM. Its primary purpose is to steal money and lie. But it occasionally becomes bored with that and goes on a murderous rampage in order to secure its own well being. And the concept of Don Corleone running Likud is a hoot. We Paisanos wouldn't touch that trash with a ten foot pole.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger Julien said...

This article is great. I am very grateful towards its author.
The main question is: Are the Zionists real Jews?
99% of the Jewish community is innocent but cynically exploited by their criminal "leaders" who never hesitated to murder them when they didn’t agree to their diktats. Most Jewish people are good and reliable citizens, neighbours, friends and parents in all the country where they are living.
Before 1948 all the Palestinian Jewish community was completely and even violently opposed to the creation of Israel. The Zionists despised and ignored them though they were the most concerned by their project. And is it necessary to recall all the false flag Israeli operations in Arabic countries against local Jews to force them to emigrate in Israel where their life became miserable?
All the people who speak against the "Jews" are thus helping the Zionist mafia to fulfil their darks plans.
The answer is probably in this quote of Jesus on the Pharisees:
"I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judeans and are not, but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN"…"Ye are of your father, the devil ... He was a murderer from the beginning ... he is a liar and the father of it."
The Pharisees are the real forefathers of the Zionists and therefore of the genocidal state of Israel.
Julien, Geneva/Switzerland

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

Ok I see now.

I disagree. I don't see sites saying to round up the jews. I don't see anything even remotely close to that. Especially this site. I see people listing names and giving clear examples of why their names are listed, but not saying "the jews". I see people listing companies not saying "jewish companies". I see people listing specific events. I don't see jews being targeted. I see the names of people who are obviously involved in helping Israel benefit such as people with connections to Israel's lobby. Some of these people are dual citizens of Israel, some of them are not. Some of them are jewish and some of them are not. Some of them seem to be deferring more strongly than they are benefiting. And some just seem to be just flat out benefitting. But these are specific people. Not the NWO, or the Illuminati, or the TPTB. When you chase after that kind of ridiculous, unspecific, icognito crap you never get anywhere. When you have people who are obviously criminal and obviously need to be punished, if you just turn around and say "no wait leave them alone, we need to find what group is behind these people first", well that is just stupid. Take the criminals and use the criminals to find out who is manipulating them. Not sit here and say "oh everyone hates jews" and that kind of deceptive, misleading crap.

I guess I kind of know where you are coming from though, if you are sincere. A lot of people tend to refer to zionist issues as jewish issues. They are not. Look at what quasimodo just said. That is a bunch of bullshit. There is clear evidence in Judaism that Zionsim is in conflict down to the core. There is also evidence that Zionism was created by a group of people who planned to manipulate the jews into a group that could benefited by. Zionist is not equal to Jewish. Jews are obviously under a lot of pressure however to believe that zionism = judaism and that Israel is sacred and anyone criticizing it is a nazi. I'm under the impression that the jews are the most effectively abused category of people for the benefit of some larger world business players and government manipulators, but I don't blame jews for the crimes of zionists.

Anyhow, I don't think anyone is saying to round up the jews. We're saying to round up the evil players. Some of them are jews. Many of the evil players have obvious ties to Israel, because after all, the big issue right now is Israel bombing Lebanon, and if we are going to discuss that how are we going to do so without discussing Israel? And if you are going to accuse everyone who is criticizing Israel as wanting to "round up the jews", then how can anyone criticize Israel attacking another country without being a jew hater in your eyes? And I really don't think anyone feels that only jews are to blame. Many people with obviously non-religious and non-ethnic reasons are benefiting criminally off of this war, including anglo-saxon bsbsbs etc as you listed as having some kind of irrational immunity in our minds.

Maybe I'm just a retard, but I tend to think that what is on TV is what everyone is being tricked into believing. Not what people are discussing with detailed information, investigation, and evidence in opposition to the official media.

I don't feel like going back and editing that. Hopefully it didn't come out neurotic.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

brook,

what does this say?

"Zionism is just the latest of many isms, and schisms of what is really only plain old everyday garden variety JUDAISM"

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

and when you say that people say what they actually haven't said, like:

"When you have people who are obviously criminal and obviously need to be punished, if you just turn around and say "no wait leave them alone, we need to find what group is behind these people first"

you are not only being stupid youare also lying and being mendacious.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

and the post we're commenting on has the zionists/jews behind everything: the holocaust, world wars I&II, communism, what else?

come on.

the PsTB be are NOT incognito: they're businesses, they go to the same ivy league schools, they sit in yr damned government.

it is they, and not you, who usually call on the mob to round up the jews and i THINK THEY'RE ABOUT TO DO SO ONCE MORE. like they always have.

did i at any point say that YOU or anyone here had proposed that? no. but you put the words in my mouth a=so as to knock me down although i never said them.

this is what exactly? honest? truthful? fair? discerning?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

jc,
You're free to believe as you like. I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of anything. I was invited to contribute and I have added what I have researched and studied. If you wish to attribute these events to the 'illuminati, satanic, NWOers' like Alex Jones that's your choice. I prefer to be a tad more specific in identification.

kdaves,

I was going to add that to the post but I left it out. Hamas DID start out as a humanitarian group to win the confidence of the people and their support. Then when they switched to militancy it disposed of the humanitarian pretext. How could a small group of 'commoners' amass the wealth and connections neccessary to build all of these hospitals? Not to sound repetative but if you care to read,"Rothschilds:Portrait of a Dynasty" you will find that the Rothschilds did the exact same thing by building tenement projects and hospitals during the early 1800's in Europe. Rothschild's are the founders of zionist 'israel'.

julien,
NO zionists are not Jews. Not to get into deep 'religious' discussion but 'Jew' is a term that came from different translations for Judean. To constrain Jesus as being 'the king of the Jews' as the inscription is translated is erroneous because that limits Him to a group of people. The proper translation would have been 'King of Judeans' which was in accordance with His station and rank as Son of God. After all Jerusalem and Israel is the inheritance of God to be given to whomever He chooses and did He not choose His Son?

Zionists have and will continue to try to exalt themselves above the stars of God, that is the nature of their father. I could expound on this subject but I am not here to teach about my beliefs I am here to share what I see. If you care to visit my blog we could carry on this aspect of our dicussion.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

kds,

you said:

"If you wish to attribute these events to the 'illuminati, satanic, NWOers' like Alex Jones that's your choice. I prefer to be a tad more specific in identification."

i have and still do identify. the US is in my view NOT THE VICTIM of zion. THEY PROMOTE zion. THEY FUND zion.

i BLAME the US.
i BLAME americanism.
i BLAME the goddamn US EMPIRE.
the US behind pinochet, saddam, the shah of iran, marcos, the US that dunded STALIN and HITLER.
the US that ran operation PAPERCLIP.
the US that ran THE SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS.

is that clear enough for you?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger Lurk said...

I agree with Jc to a certain extent. Watching the biased news we get, it does'nt seem to go so well for the israeli army (the medias don't even report correctly, they say 10 israeli died, when it should be 10 israeli SOLDIERS died). Some reports of soldiers refusing to fire because of doubts about the quality of war intelligence(I know, I know). I know someone, somewhere is happy when there's a war, because it makes money. It's really crass, but that's it. No masterplan, no evil genius in the shadows shrewdly manipulating world events. Just people with no discernable humanity, thinking, hey, I can make money off this corpse. And they have no definite culture, nationality or religion. You find them everywhere, thieves, murderers, swindlers, rapists, drug dealers. Some people think "I'm just selling drugs, I'm not responsible for what happens to the junkie." It's the same with weapons. We make them in North America, Europe, Asia. We pass them around for a fee, and children die. Sometimes, it would be reassuring to think it's all one huge well-crafted plan, because we can oppose it, fight it and succeed. But it's not. It's about driving the car/boat/motorcycle around for FUN, it's about buying stuff in plastic cause it's NEAT, about eating too much because you CAN. And even if you stop playing your part, another useless moron will gladly double his efforts to make sure the world is'nt a better place. So...

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

Jc,

Yeah I meant to make a comment about people trying to posion this site into appearing to be nothing other than a "anti-semite" site, as Quasimod appears to have attempted.

"you are not only being stupid youare also lying and being mendacious."

You are claiming that we are blaming the jews. And you are claiming that we have been mislead into blaming the jews. First off we aren't blaming the jews, cause it doesn't even make sense. Since we aren't blaming them we haven't been tricked into blaming them. So if we are going to try and blame someone and you are going to respond with "jews are the super patsy" even though we aren't talking about "the jews" then aren't you saying to stop blaming the people we are talking about and look for the people who back them instead? Not as if we would just ignore that the people who back obvious criminals also need to be punished.

"did i at any point say that YOU or anyone here had proposed that? no. but you put the words in my mouth a=so as to knock me down although i never said them."

Yeah it was basically the tone of your orginial post that we are blaming everything on the jews. You even just said: "the PsTB... it is they, and not you, who usually call on the mob to round up the jews." Doesn't that mean you think we are calling for the rounding up of the jews and we are doing so because we have been mislead?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

no it doesn't

i dont think you have that kind of power

who do you mean by we, i was commenting on ONE post by ONE individual.

the same way you commented on quasimodo.

this ONE post above DOES blame it all on the jews.

would you address that and not keep saying i said something i didn't say?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

just because:

"I agree with Jc to a certain extent. Watching the biased news we get, it does'nt seem to go so well for the israeli army (the medias don't even report correctly, they say 10 israeli died, when it should be 10 israeli SOLDIERS died). Some reports of soldiers refusing to fire because of doubts about the quality of war intelligence(I know, I know). I know someone, somewhere is happy when there's a war, because it makes money. It's really crass, but that's it. No masterplan, no evil genius in the shadows shrewdly manipulating world events. Just people with no discernable humanity, thinking, hey, I can make money off this corpse. And they have no definite culture, nationality or religion. You find them everywhere, thieves, murderers, swindlers, rapists, drug dealers. Some people think "I'm just selling drugs, I'm not responsible for what happens to the junkie." It's the same with weapons. We make them in North America, Europe, Asia. We pass them around for a fee, and children die. Sometimes, it would be reassuring to think it's all one huge well-crafted plan, because we can oppose it, fight it and succeed. But it's not. It's about driving the car/boat/motorcycle around for FUN, it's about buying stuff in plastic cause it's NEAT, about eating too much because you CAN. And even if you stop playing your part, another useless moron will gladly double his efforts to make sure the world is'nt a better place. So..."

these people would love for us to blame someone else for their crimes though. eh?

how about them jews, bubba? they're the one took yo house and children. i'm a xtian busnissman, i'd never do that to ya. now how about signing this new mortage deal i worked out for y'all? it's really sweet, the good lawd would sign it.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

You're right, I shouldn't be saying we. But by that I meant the majority of the opinions that I've seen on this site since qrswave started it.

"In excess of 80% of European Jewry was OPPOSED to ZIONISM"

How does that mean that he was blaming the jews for everything? I'm definitely getting a much different message from his post than you are. I got that the jews were a manipulated people and an organized group tried to hijack their religion and ethnicity to use it as a tool by creating zionism.

"i BLAME the US."

I blame the USA for a lot too. But I don't ignore the zionist mover and shakers that riddle the upper levels of government that have ties back to the same ones who riddled the government of Russia nearly a 100 years ago.

Do you think the first step in the big solution is to dismantle the USA? That would definitely stop the funding of Israel from USA. Of course they get money from other countries and they have a surplus now... But we definitely save them billions on free military hardware.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

jc,

I'm not trying to argue with you. It seemed to me that you were rejecting the idea of zionist influence in history and it looks as if I'm not the only one that percieved it that way.

"zion is a WESTERN FRONT"

What exactly do you mean by a statement like this? Zionism did not originate in America. The people that started the assult to enslave America began 250 years before 'zionism' was created but its roots are there. As a matter of fact the influences that control almost every aspect of American government right now are not linked to the Merovingian dynasty or the priory of sion but Rothschilds and zionist 'israel' which they founded. It was Rothschilds that created the central banks and got the 'Federal Reserve' in America. It was Rothschilds that funded Jacob Schiff and his thrust to destroy Russia with Boleshevism.

Perhaps this will put things in better perspective. All through the 1930's up until the 1980's communism was the object that the US government used to strike fear into the citizens of the United States. Communism is an ideology whose basic tenets lie in the labor movement of zionism and Marx's dad was a rabbi. So the thing that people have been taught to fear is the very thing that they have been in bed with for the last 70+ years.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

you read the merchant from venice: shakespeare, and shylock?

everyone's on about shylock being who he is, they'll speak aginst "jewish banking" or they'll say shakespeare was anti-semitic.

but NO ONE, NO ONE talks about who it was exactly gave shylock the writ to run his business in venice: who RAN and taxed him, and blamed him, and put him to the stake while they counted their takings. the people who can then come round and say how about that, we done saved you from shylock? where's your 401?

this is the exact same thing i see happening now.

you say zionism is new but then you mention that marx's father was a rabbi, which means what? "garden variety judaism" as modo put it.

it the jews! right?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger Julien said...

Thanks for your very useful answer Ksdrover. From now on I will read regulary your articles!

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

You're talking about Shakespeare, I'm talking about history.

"Communism is an ideology whose basic tenets lie in the labor movement of zionism and Marx's dad was a rabbi."

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

You're welcome Julien. That is the reason I accepted the invitation, to help people see beyond the ephemeral.

peace

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

far as i know shakespeare is history? or are you trying to suggest that you're more scientific and englightened "helping people see beyond the ephemeral."

you walk on water too?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

Jc,

"you say zionism is new but then you mention that marx's father was a rabbi, which means what? "garden variety judaism" as modo put it."

You bring up something that I've been thinking about a lot lately. Whether or not it's ever valid to do so, people discussing these topics from the side I am on too often given way too much weight to whether or not someone is jewish or associated with jews when discussing their possible involvement in sinister zionist activity. I wouldn't implicate Marx to a greater degree because his father was a rabbi. I implicate him on account of the evidence I've read showing he was financially associated with the Rothschilds.

Regardless, the more people implicate someone because of their classification, the more they start to dislike that classification in general. That path of logic leads to a clouded and irrational mind and eventually to hate.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

That's the first time I ever heard someone speak of Shakespeare's literary work as history. Which obviously implicates it's the same as reading a history book. Then again, even though Shakespeare wrote fiction and often times based it even closely on history, our "true history" texts are often also manipulated to the point of just being a bad work of fiction.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

"far as i know shakespeare is history"

Shakespeare is a historical FIGURE. His writing were fiction altough from time to time life does imitate art.

As to you sarcasm I am merely a man. I will continue if there is a basis for discussion but I'm not into slinging mud.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

past literature is part of history. its part of the past.

you CAN actually LEARN somenthing about elizabethan times, mores and percptions from READING shakespeare.

what the merchant from venice tells us is that people at one point in time felt a certain way about jews.

there are other documents, fictional and otherwise that will tell you about the same feelings at other places and times in western history.

it is useful now because some people feel the same way today.

if you read that is.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

this is good:

"But, as human beings, our very existence depends on the accuracy of the information we rely upon…"

like the anonymous claims of an israeli "intelligence" officer on ynetnews.

and your "belief" in that report, what if that's alie, hmm?

you should read your own writing. some of it anyway.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

on the PsTB:

"In all, about 1 percent of U.S. representatives and senators have a child in uniform. And the Capitol building is no different from other places where the leadership class in this country gathers -- no different from the boardrooms, newsrooms, ivory towers and penthouses of our nation."

not exactly news is it? nor are they entirely unknown, hidden behind the scenes, secretive and what not.

but of course, they're all being "manipulated and controlled" by the joos.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger brookskof said...

Jc,

and who is saying that they are being controlled and manipulated by "the jews" ?

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

What terrible luck, another sad report.

Three dead, more than 30 wounded in Haifa rocket attack

Sun Aug 6, 2:47 PM ET
JERUSALEM (AFP) - Three people were killed and more than 30 wounded in heavy rocket fire from Lebanon on Israel's third largest city of Haifa, police and emergency services said.

"Three people were killed in the bombardment," said David Sisso of Haifa police.

"There are more than 30 wounded, some of them in serious condition," said Yeroham Mandola, spokesman for Magen David Adom, the Israeli equivalent of the Red Cross.

"One building hit in the bombardment collapsed," he told AFP, adding that it lay in Wadi Nisnas, an ARAB NEIGHBORHOOD of the city.

Almost as if it were 'planned' that way.

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

here's mike rivero's comment on that report in case you missed it:

"Oh yeah, I really believe Hezbollah is aiming their rockets into Arab neighborhoods."

 
At Sunday, August 06, 2006, Blogger jc said...

here's another story:

"Israel yesterday endured the bloodiest day of the war so far when at least 15 people, among them 12 soldiers, were killed in a series of Hizbullah rocket strikes on the north of the country.

The soldiers, all recently called-up reservists, were gathered around two parked cars under a row of fir trees at the edge of an historic cemetery next to the kibbutz of Kfar Giladi, when a barrage of rockets rained down on the northern hills. One landed just in front of one of the cars, gouging a shallow crater in the road. Both cars were left blackened and burnt out.

pretty good aim i'd say. but of course they're only doing that to prove that they're the real deal when in "fact" they're mossad.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger ksdrover said...

Actually I got it from the front page of Yahoo if you care to know.

You think as you like jc, I won't stop you.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger duarte1 said...

Hello all: we have 2 options: Socialism or death of the human species. According to historical materialism and social scientists, the most rational, humanist, scientific system is socialism. Capitalism is satanic, it's anti-CHRIST. Socialism is scientific and Pro-Bible, Pro-Christ

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger duarte1 said...

The only thing that can save the USA is a Lincolnian Revolutionary Participative-socialist democratic system under a workers administration system of the corporations and lands, this is the only way to spread power, to prevent centralized power, and to spread the $$$ produced in the USA so that it won't stay in the right wing oligarchies BUT democratically go to workers and masses (We the people). Workers CONTROL that's what USA needs: REVOLUTIONARY WORKERS CONTROL

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger theblackbay.com said...

Wow i came to this one late BTW... qrswave they did delete my Wikipedia entry for B H Freedman almost twice, I took it to the Admins and it was restored.

so it's still there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_H._Freedman

although they deleted the picture because i can't prove i have copyright.

------------------------------------

When one looks for the "truth" one must examine the things they "know" to be true this is relative to the size of the idea:

example:

Hez are really a front for the Israel?

Well what do we know?

We know that Iran is a Problem for Israel and has been the focus of their propaganda recently

We know the Zionists do not want Iran around

We know Iran and Syria have a Deal.

We know that the "Kornet" and other systems can defeat a Abrams A1 or other well made tank.

We Know from Vietnam that a well tunnelled and camouflaged force is a extremely hard target from the air.

We know that the Zionists use the Media

We know that they would prefer to have their own people on board.

we also know that a conflict with Iran and Syria is inevitable.

We know that Zionists are arrogant and believe in their own superiority


On this basis I believe that Wasting Money, Fuel, tanks and equipment in a Vietnam type war against an enemy of your own does not bring a country any closer to the main objective they wish for which is the destruction of Iran as a government and nation, and a threat.

If America wished to Attack Iran they would simply just create another False Flag. or better still the Zionist would for them.

Then Once Iran was Attacked it would attack Israel and everything is on. with Israel attacking Syria under the justification of the defence deal.

no one would care.

therefore I believe that in the two years Iran has been training troops on the ground in Lebanon to strike as a ground front alternative as you can see that Israel has many on it's border in the form of Afgahn and Iraq etc.

I make no judgment just the fact as i see them.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger theblackbay.com said...

As for the German history view i too have studied this past i would not consider myself a master or ever consider myself that.

But in reference to the identification system IBM etc. one must look at it in perspective:

Hitler : feared Communism, let me explain that the Czar of Russia "Royals" would never let a Federal Reserve Type system be instituted into Russia.

so what happened they were murdered by a bunch of animals needlessly after the government was dissolved.

to us in 2006 it seems like a story but let me make it clear it was a message to anyone else, and Hitler got it loud and clear.

If there were identifications on people it was because of the immense paranoid fear of communism which was right next door and it's immediate threat of death and destruction.

you know i'm kinda sick of the Nazi Bashing i hear these stories all the time. and if anybody want an enemy they just HAVE to be associated with Nazis. it's quite hilarious.

Go to England ask an old Englishman what he thinks of NAZIS, if he actually served he will tell you of their good sense of humour and decent caring nature, of course he'll say "we had to defeat them" but i dare say go and ask.

I have even heard that Hitler was a Rothschild (obviously because someone is desperate to associate Hitler to the Fed) (you cannot)- (he fought it) -
the best answer to that is that when Austria was annexed to the NSDAP the house of Rothschild was closed down in Austria and they scurried away.

The only one i know of?

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger theblackbay.com said...

Perhaps that closing down of that office or "house" is a better explanation as to why everyone n the "press" and "internet Media" needs to hate a Nazi.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger theblackbay.com said...

Of course I’m not saying that it's impossible that some opportunistic "thinkers" decided to turn their mortars/Artillery towards Arab towns and centres and then blame it on Hez. well of course i would believe that in a second but, but at best it is a desperate grasp for a foothold in the information/propaganda war.

and a sure sign that things are not Rosey.

the US will (low yeild) nuke Iran.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger SmokeNMirrors said...

Interesting discussion, and from what I can see (unless I missed a bit), I think TheBlackBay has come the closest to the real answer. Consider it like this. Rather than examine this whole thing from an ideological viewpoint, try looking at it from a very simple, human viewpoint. What I mean is, look who has the most money, who is involved in the most places, and then look at THEIR allegiances, who THEY support, what kind of influence THEY have had on history.

It ultimately boils down to the name Rothschild and the fact that it's estimated that they pretty much own everything, everywhere, full stop. Personally I'm not sure that's actually possible - but then I may only be saying that because of the constraints on my belief of the social brainwashing I've been subject to. It may be entirely possible to own literally everything; what cannot be denied is that The World's Banker achieved total financial world domination by the late 1800s. The name Rothschild was/is synonymous with the whole concept of Zionism (indeed I have heard it postulated that the concept was dreamt up by a Rothschild as a vehicle for world domination, in exactly the way that JC suggests) and the very existence of the nation of Israel (indeed, the Balfour Declaration was written by the British Government TO Lord Rothschild, basically okaying his Palestine project). I have also read the suggestion that the whole concept of anti-Semitism as we know it today was also dreamt up by the Rothschilds; although that's a difficult claim to back up I have seen an examination of the rise of modern anti-Semitism which suggests that at the very least the concept was being heavily promoted by the rich elite (so who else?!) around the time Rothschild was sponsoring early Zionism. The power and influence of this family is such that the very first Jewish Member of Parliament in Britain was a Rothschild - indeed, the oaths of office were changed to accomodate him, and the first Jewish Lord was a Rothschild. The WORLD gold price was set in Rothschild's City of London offices until 2004. Rothchild has owned the Bank of England since 1815, and they have controlling shares in all of the banks that make up the Federal Reserve System. So basically, they own the USA too. My point here is simply to demonstrate the unholy influence this one family has on world events; when it is taken into account their almost unguessable wealth (I saw one estimate, based on a conservative growth rate, which estimated anything up to thousands of trillions of dollars) and the amount of power and influence that kind of wealth buys, well, it's obviously limitless.

A few years back, as I was unravelling the lies surrounding the invasion of Iraq, I became convinced that all roads lead to Israel. Then eventually it hit me, with possibly even greater impact. All roads don't lead TO Israel, they lead THROUGH Israel. Exactly as JC said, although maybe my reasoning may be different from his, but Israel has always been a tool, a blunt instrument with which to forment war in the MidEast - an area with potential religions divisions going back to biblical times. In the same way the Illuminati encouraged the spread of Communism in Russia in order to fuel the Cold War and to use as a big stick with which to beat the world (and then to ultimately loot and abandon!), so Zionism is a vehicle, nothing more, nothing less.

In short, it's ultimately about achieving the desires of the Rothschild dynasty, using religion and Zionism as the smokescreens. One thing I DO take issue with JC about is his insistence that it isn't a Jewish thing but is rather a Western White Man thing. It IS a Jewish thing, although not in the sense that the Jewish man in the street benefits. What I mean is, the financial elite is largely Jewish, although I'm not sure they practice the same flavour of Judaism as the rank and file. Again, take it back to the personal; Rotshchilds werer Jews from Frankfurt in Germany; Rockefeller is Jewish. Rockefeller incidentally is reportedly the second richest family, although if you believe that Rothchild owns everything then it follows that the Rockefeller fortune is effectively borrowed (and indeed Rockefeller was initially funded by Rothschild, as were most of the other rich families). A good number ot the Illuminati bloodlines (if you subscribe to those beliefs - and why not, after all, they ARE the banking families) are Jewish. The eldest male of the Rothschild family is called The King of the Jews; anyone want a bet that in the not too distant future there won't be a crowning ceremony for the King of the World? It wouldn't surprise my jaded mind if what is happening today really IS following what was laid down in the Protocols of Zion in preparation for the unveiling of the real agenda for World Government and the Global Fascist State, all simply to keep the rest of us from toppling the Rothschilds from their position as the undisputed kings of the castle. It seems fantastic, but then so is the idea that supposedly democratic UK and USA would overtly support the invasion of a number of sovereign nations on the basis of outright lies.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger nesNYC said...

I love this piece, thank you!

Now, to all those who are confused, it's really simple. The Zionists are simply tools of the ruling elite. They have conditioned the Jewish community thought terror and genocide to support their satanic Zionist state. To clarify, read here:

The Counterfeit-Jew Zionist and Judahite British Elite Conspiracy

Although the above piece talks about British Isrealism, I think they hit the nail on the head with the UK Royals at the top of the chain of the ruling class. They are but one family in the top 13 "Black Nobility" and families that really call the shots in the world. The saga of the Islamists and the Zionist is theater with deadly consequences.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger Stern Gang said...

While researching this issue have you come across material linking Zionism to a Christian elite France? England? If so, what are the ramifications for the Israeli-Arab conflict?

Finally, would Israel stand as a viable entity with its current ability to project dominance in the middle east without Western support?

Hizballah is as much of Mossad as the Chechchen rebels are of KGB?

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger SmokeNMirrors said...

I personally have come across nothing that links Zionism with a Christian elite; plenty that links Zionism with an elite which seems to be more Jewish than anything, although again I think the Christian/Jewish thing is a dead herring - I think it's more about the level of wealth rather than religious affilliation.

And of course, no, Israel could not survive without Western support. This is a moot point though - Western support will not (can not) stop for Israel, simply because there is too much Israeli (Jewish?!) influence in Western governments. The point was made a century ago by a British politician (I forget who) that the British upper class is effectively Israel and vice versa; I'm quite confident the only change there's been since then is that there is now even more Israeli (Jewish?!) influence.

 
At Monday, August 07, 2006, Blogger Stern Gang said...

SmokeNMirrors said: although again I think the Xristian/Jewish thing is a dead herring - I think it's more about the level of wealth rather than religious affilliation.

I agree, nevertheless, I think it is important to establish the Christian links to Zionism. These links are well documented. I bring up the subject so that we could discuss the motivations behind this linkange if any? Please the material below as a starting point.

Ok, I remember reading about the Christian roots of Zionism on occasion. I am not suggesting that those who settled in Palestine were Christian. The point being made here is that Zionism is a European project with its roots in Western civilization. Many Christians in France, Britain and Russia were the nurturers of the notion. "Jews" latched on to the idea centuries later. I present but a few examples I was quickly, able to come across the web, which instruct on the Christian roots of Zionism.

The pagan Roman Emperor Julian began the project of restoring the Jews to Jerusalem and rebuilding the temple. He fell in battle before the project could be completed, and subsequent Christian emperors abandoned the project.

http://www.mideastweb.org/britzion.htm

However, with the rise of Prstestantism and the Enlightenment brought a spirit to Europe wherein, support grew for restoration of the Jews as the rightful owners of "the Holy Land." This movement was nourished by many sources, not all favorable to the Jews. The theology of some branches of Protestantism posits that the second coming of Christ would only come only after the Jews were reestablished in their land. Antisemites believed that establishment of a Jewish homeland would be a convenient way to rid Europe of Jews. Imperialists hoped that a Jewish Palestine would be an excuse for a British protectorate there, and might serve as a solution for the "Eastern Question."

The idea of Jewish restoration was not alien to British culture. In 1621, the British MP Sir Henry Finch wrote a book entitled "The World's Great Restoration." He encouraged Jews to reassert their claim to the Holy Land, writing, "Out of all the places of thy dispersion, East, West, North and South, His purpose is to bring thee home again and to marry thee to Himself by faith for evermore." However, the idea remained dormant until the enlightenment and the rise of nationalism in the 19th century coincided with the full bloom of British Imperialism.

In 1799, Napoleon issued a proclamation promising to restore Palestine to the Jews, as he was camped outside Acre. Though Napoleon was forced to withdraw from Palestine, the idea had been planted and took root in British soil. For religious, or humanitarian or philosophical or imperialist motives, prominent Britons learned Hebrew, wrote novels about restoration of the Jewish commonwealth, began settlement and exploration societies and advocated restoration of the Jews in public and in private. Among the advocates we may include Lord Lindsay, Lord Shaftesbury Lord Palmerston, Disraeli, Lord Manchester, George Eliot, Holman Hunt, Sir Charles Warren, Hall Caine and others. Shaftesebury was probably responsible for the phrase "A country without a nation for a nation without a country," later to become the Zionist slogan "A land without a people for a people without a land." He asserted, " There is unbroken identity of Jewish race and Jewish mind down to our times; but the great revival can take place only in the Holy Land."

Lord Lindsay wrote:

The soil of "Palestine still enjoys her sabbaths, and only waits for the return of her banished children, and the application of industry, commensurate with her agricultural capabilities, to burst once more into universal luxuriance, and be all that she ever was in the days of Solomon. ( Crawford, A.W.C. (Lord Lindsay), Letters on Egypt, Edom and the Holy Land, London, H. Colburn 1847, V II, p 71).

Charles Henry Churchill, a British resident of Damascus, also became a zealous propagator of the creation of a Jewish State in Palestine. In 1841 he wrote a letter to the Jewish philanthropist Moses Montefiore in which he stated: "...I consider the object to be perfectly obtainable. But, two things are indispensably necessary. Firstly, that the Jews will themselves take up the matter unanimously. Secondly, that the European powers will aid them in their views..."

In 1839 the Church of Scotland sent Andrew Bonar Robert Murray M'Cheyne, to report on "the Condition of the Jews in their land." Their report was widely publicized in Great Britain and it was followed by a "Memorandum to Protestant Monarchs of Europe for the restoration of the Jews to Palestine." This memorandum was printed verbatim in the London Times, including an advertisement by Lord Shaftesbury igniting an enthusiastic campaign by the Times for restoration of the Jews.

In August 1840 the Times reported that the British government was considering Jewish restoration. It added that "a nobleman of the Opposition" (apparently Lord Shaftesbury) was making inquiries to determine:

1. Jewish opinion of the proposed restoration.

2. Jewish readiness to live in Palestine and invest their capital in agriculture.

3. How soon they would be ready to go.

4. Whether they would pay for their own passage, given assurance of safety to life and property.

5. Whether they would be willing to live under the Turkish rule, protected by Britain, France, Russia, Prussia, Austro- Hungary.

Lord Shaftesbury was the most active restoration lobbyist. 'The inherent vitality,' he wrote, 'of the Hebrew race reasserts itself with amazing persistence. Its genius, to tell the truth, adapts itself more or less to all the currents of civilization all over the world, nevertheless always emerging with distinctive features and a gallant recovery of vigor.

Lord Shaftesbury lobbied for the idea with Prime Minister Palmerston and his successors in the government and was incidentally instrumental in the considerable assistance and protection against oppression that Britain hence­forth extended to the Jews already living in Palestine.

Sir George Gawler, a hero of Waterloo, urged the restoration of the Jews as the remedy for the desolation of Palestine. In 1848 he wrote, "I should be truly rejoiced to see in Palestine a strong guard of Jews established in flourishing agricultural settlements and ready to hold their own upon the mountains of Israel against all aggressors. I can wish for nothing more glorious in this life than to have my share in helping them do so." Gawler formed a Palestine colonisation fund to help the work of settlement.

In her novel, Daniel Deronda (1876), George Eliot advocated, "the restoration of a Jewish state planted in the old ground as a center of a national feeling, a source of dignifying protection, a special channel for special energies and an added voice in the councils of the world."

The restoration movement fed off the nascent Jewish nationalist movement Colonel Churchill in Damascus was influenced by Montefiore, who had been trying to secure a Jewish homeland in Palestine from the Mehmet Ali, the Khedive of Egypt. Ali was not opposed, but he was deposed shortly thereafter. George Eliot's Daniel Deronda reflected her thorough grounding in the work of the Jewish historian Heinrich Graetz, who believed in national restoration of the Jews in their own land.

F. Laurence Oliphant (1829-1888), MP and Evangelical Christian, was a follower of Lord Shaftesbury. In 1880 Oliphant published a book entitled The Land of Gilead, urging the British Parliament to assist the restoration of Jews to Palestine from Russia and Eastern Europe, and advocating that Palestinian Arabs be removed to reservations like those of the North American Indians.

The interest of Britain in Palestine expressed itself in the "capitulations" won from the Turks, allowing them to place missions there and to found charitable works such as hospitals, settlement colonies and exploratory surveys like those of Conder. In fact, there were over a 1,000 British travelogues and surveys of the Middle East in the 19th century. Such exploratory travels, as in the case of famous explorers such as Burton and Livingston, usually preceded British imperial involvement in a region. Toward the end of the nineteenth century, British interest in the Middle East increased, because it was considered essential to guard the route to India and to guarantee the stability of the Turkish empire against Russian and other imperialist threats. Settlement of Jews in Palestine was offered first as a way to bolster the faltering Turks and help guarantee the security of the Suez canal. The idea which had seemed utopian became a more or less respectable and acceptable project.

The point here is to further establish and put into context that the Zionist movement was at the onset and continues to be a colonialist endeavor.
http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/1770

Zionism's insistence that European Jewish colonial settlers in Palestine were White Europeans is as old as Zionism itself. In his magnum opus, Der JudenStaat (The State of the Jews) published in 1896, Herzl unabashedly identified the Zionist state to be "the portion of the rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilisation as opposed to barbarism". When negotiating later with the Portuguese Ambassador Count Paraty to locate an African territory to be colonised by European Jews (most likely Mozambique), Herzl asked Paraty to inquire of the Portuguese government the following: "Is there a territory sufficiently habitable and cultivable by Europeans?"


Quote from Non-Jewish Zionism: Its Roots in Western History
by Regina Sharif

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0862321514/102-4053136-5516141?v=glance&n=283155

Moreover, just as 'Palestine' was a construct of European Christian scholarship, so the principle sources for information on the subject, Jewish, Classical pagan and Christian, were also largely the exclusive preserve of European Christian scholars, thanks, largely, to the Roman Catholic Church.


This is an outright racist article however, it shows nascent Zionist firmly suckling in the bossom of Christiany.

http://christianactionforisrael.org/annals_cz.html
Jewish figures as Pinsker, Nordau, and Herzl in the late 19th century. But there already existed in Europe Christian Zionists who, recognizing the continuing plight of Jews as a stateless people and, in many cases, inspired by the Old Testament, began to discuss and promote the idea of a Jewish return to Zion.

In her riveting study, Bible and Sword, the historian Barbara Tuchman traced the origins of Christian Zionism in England, from the earliest days to its full flourishing in late Victorian England. It was there that Christian Zionists won the earliest converts, including such powerful spokesmen as the writers George Eliot (Daniel Deronda), Laurance Oliphant, and the lesser-known Charlotte Elizabeth (Judea Capta), important statesmen such as Lord Salisbury and Lord Shaftesbury, and military men such as Colonel Churchill, all of whom were inspired by a vision based on Biblical history that led them to investigate the possibilities of making that vision real. Through speeches and writing, they promoted the restoration of a Jewish commonwealth in what, since Roman times, had been known to Western Christendom as the Holy Land or Palestine, a forsaken place divided under Moslem rule into various Ottoman administrative units, or vilayets.

Lastly, to further substantiate the European roots of Zionism, consider this passage:

Passage from: A Basic History of Zionism and its Relation to Judaism-
http://www.robincmiller.com/articles/hanna1.htm

There had been a number of revolts and uprisings against their hegemony and their collaboration with Rome, Jesus was one non violent example, and so they decided to leave when the Romans pulled out. Most of the indigenous subsistence farmers, craftsmen and small-time traders stayed put and continued their lives as before. Some of these inhabitants were early Christians and form the ancestors of today's Palestinian Christians, others remained Jewish. Modern research suggests that when Islam arrived in the area in 638 AD many of these Jews converted and that they form a considerable part of today's Palestinians. Numerous surnames, such as Mousa, Dini and Canaan, are even nowadays shared by Arab Jews, Muslims and Christians. Incidentally, people with the surnames Da Souza and Sassoon were originally from the Jewish community in Suza, the ancient capital of Persia. Those who left with the Romans later dispersed to other parts of Europe and even central Asia, where there were some trading outposts. The bulk of European Jews, however, consisted of Khazars, inhabitants of an important kingdom in the early middle ages, roughly between the Caspian and the Black sea. One of their Khans or kings converted to Judaism around 740 AD and made Judaism the state religion. In the 9th century Khazaria finally fell to the Viking hordes and its inhabitants dispersed throughout much of Europe. Thus the idea of a "return" of European Jews to their roots is an absurd myth.

The financing and membership of the Zionist project may have been Jewish (French - British financing ... most members Eastern Europeans ) nevertheless, the reformantion of the Jew to Palestine was a Christian idea that emerged with Protestantism and the Enlightenment -- strenghened and eventually, realized with the amassed wealth [and the power it yielded ] from mercantilism, colonialism and slavery--beginning in the early 15th century.

Lastly, see also, Lovers of Zion: A Brief History of Christian Zionism by
Thomas Ice, which places this Christian support for Zion as far back as the 2nd century AD but becoming more avid in the 12th century. http://www.ifca.org/voice/05Mar-Apr/ThomasIce.htm

 
At Tuesday, August 08, 2006, Blogger SmokeNMirrors said...

I'm impressed, Stern Gang.

However.

Yes there have been and still are Christians in the Zionist movement, but it's a moot point, because they are not to blame. Really - none of those people matter and none of the links matter unless we can point to unbreakable links to people alive and involved today. You need names to point to for people to sit up and take notice; basically you need someone to blame. There is one (family) whom we can, and they are Jewish. The family name is Rothschild.

Now I don't mean to say that I think this is a Jewish conspiracy; no, as I've said before I personally think the religion aspect is a red herring, I think it's more about wealth. The fact that Rothschilds are Jewish could be immaterial, unless you subscribe to some really arcane conspiracy theories. But it cannot be doubted that the name Rothschild has been synonymous with everything that has happened over the past 230 years, lurking in the shadows but always always always there. So yes, while there may be others who have been involved all along, you have to be talking about people further down the chain and who therefore in the grand scheme of things simply don't matter; people like Weishaupt, Herzl, Lenin, Hitler, Bush are all small fry by comparison, literally nobodies. I'm talking about The Big Cheese!!! Of course there are others involved, and yes, it's an old idea, but you can't blame the inventor of the aeroplane for Israel bombing Lebanon!

And again, whilst yes the idea of Zionism has been kicking around in various forms for centuries, so what? There's actually nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a homeland for the Jews, except for one thing - "The Jews" are a religion, not a race of people. If it's ok for one religion to have it's own homeland, it has to be ok for all others. Does that mean then that the world should be split up into nations composed of religions? No, of course not! So, should the Jews have been a special case? That's a big question, and one I don't want to get into too much right here. However, the fact that Zionism has existed for so long is not necessarily a bad thing - with the right political will it could have been done in such a way that Israel as a nation existed and caused no trouble. Don't forget, Israel was originally touted as being in the region of Uganda. But the idea of Zionism simply as a homeland for the Jews is not what Israel is today. Israel today is a terrorist nation which is acting as (being used as?) the big stick in the MidEast (the home of most of the world's Black Gold); the resultant unrest is making money for oil companies, whilst "defence" companies are making a mint. It's not the IDEA of Zionism in terms of a homeland for the Jews which is to blame, but the actuality of Zionism as it exists today, which is something else again. And to really find out what is going on you have to look at who is doing the driving. And it is not Ehud Olmert. Or George Bush. Those people all dance to a tune. YOu have to look at who is paying the piper. Follow the money, all the way to source.

How far back does it actually go? As far as I have been able to find, to the mid-1700s. It potentially goes all the way back to the dawn of man, but it's very difficult to prove by direct linkage, and I have only been able to prove fairly conclusively that it goes back to Mayer Amschel Bauer, the founder of the Rothschild line. There is the theory that the Rothschilds have been simply the spearhead, the focal point, of a plan which goes back to ancient pre-biblical times via the Knights Templar, King Solomon and all that. But until someone can point to provable links between the Rothschilds and the Knights Templar it's too speculative to really mean much more than an interesting story. Ok, there are strong parallels - the banking system, the extensive Europe-wide communications network, Freemasonry, etc etc, but none of that is really proof.

Therefore, we can really only go back as far as the Rothschilds in the context of what is happening today. We KNOW that the Rothschilds were so rich they were called "The Worlds Bankers". We KNOW they are rumoured to be, at the very least, among the richest and most influential people EVER. We SUSPECT they are the richest people ever - economists believe they had achieved total world financial domination by the late 1880s. Their name is very conspicuously absent from any and all rich lists that mean anything, most of those have nobodies like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet as being the richest. LMAO! Their "fortunes" are a mere bagatelle compared to the most conservative estimates of Rothschild wealth, literally a drop in the ocean. We KNOW they were all over the formation of the terrorist nation of Israel. We KNOW they owned a lot of the land in the region anyway, covered as it was in vineyards. We KNOW they were among the main sponsors of Zionism, as well as the Illuminati (indeed I have read that Adam Weishaupt was hired by Mayer Amshcel Bauer himself), both of which have had an unholy influence on the last 2 centuries of history. We also KNOW that the eldest male Rothschild is known as The King Of The Jews. We KNOW that it is strongly suspected that the Protocols of Zion was an Illuminati document which was leaked or lost, and which outlines a Jewish conspiracy for world financial domination using the banking system and credit as the tools; we also KNOW that SOMEONE (a group of people or an individual) has achieved just that. The Protocols of Zion also mentions the public crowning of the King of the World; I just wonder how far away that will be.

So, if it walks and talks like a duck, and it looks and smells like a duck, is it a duck?

It COULD be a duck. It's not WITHOUT DOUBT a duck, though; we maybe need to HEAR it and FEEL it too before we can say for certain. But if we suspect something is probably a duck we would usually do a double take and look at it again until we were sure. I've been doing that for the past 3 years with the Rothschilds, and I'm as certain as it's possible to be that while there may be other people around them in the shadows who are also to blame, the Rothschilds bear the brunt of it. It's my own personal opinion that it is they who are solely to blame.

Now I know that the Rothschilds have also been responsible for a huge amount of philanthropy too; I don't mean to suggest that they as a family are evil through and through. I'm quite sure some of them are lovely people. But again we KNOW that this is a family organised on very hierarchical lines, with the eldest male considered "the King" of the family, so it's entirely possible that the family (and this is a very large family) know as much about what is going on as the rest of us do. But we KNOW these people are so rich they have financied countries; they hobnob with world leaders; we KNOW they have hosted international gatherings of the most eminent people in the world; in short, we KNOW these people are so rich, so powerful, so influential, that they are at the centre of international happenings - and we never even see their name mentioned! We KNOW they are very very very very rich, and yet their name NEVER appears in rich lists. I personally have been researching this family for about 3 years as I say, and I have only seen them mentioned once - and even then it had their name down at number 10, which was an outright lie. And yet we KNOW that Nathan Rothschild in 1815 conned the British stockmarket into thinking Britain had lost the Battle of Waterloo against Napoleon, and then bought up most of the country (including the Bank of England) as everyone dumped stock. We KNOW Mayer Amchel said "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws"; we also KNOW Nathan Rothschild said "I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply." Strange that a family this rich, known as The Worlds Bankers, never appear in rich lists. And yet multi-billionaires like Bill Gates do. Now THAT'S some influence right there!!! It was that which initially caught my attention, when I started my research - I was actually looking for something else. As a comparison, in economic and financial circles the Rockefellers are generally thought to be No. 2 on the real rich list, with a total family worth of around $100 TRILLION; the Rothschilds fortune, already thought to be in the billions in the mid-1800s, is today estimated at between $100,000 Trillion and infinity, depending on the rate of growth since about 1850. That, to my mind, is all you need to know about what is going on in the MidEast right now. It couldn't happen, wouldn't happen, without the express permission of these people who own the land, the government, and the people - and probably the rest of us too!

 
At Tuesday, August 08, 2006, Blogger Stern Gang said...

SmokeNMirrors, henceforth (SnM), said: Yes there have been and still are Christians in the Zionist movement, but it's a moot point, because they are not to blame. Really - none of those people matter and none of the links matter unless we can point to unbreakable links to people alive and involved today. ----

Just as you point out the accumulative wealth of the Rotchschilds so too, we must point out the accumulation of wealth derived from the Zionist project to its Christian backers. After all, imperialism -- and all its socio-economic perks -- was the focal point of Christian involvement in Palestine. Unless, by the time of the project, as you insinuate, the Rothschilds had already, controlled the project to a great extent and the Christian sector was left in the shadows taking orders. Nevertheless, their part in the affair means that they are culpable.

SnM said: Yes there have been and still are Christians in the Zionist movement, but it's a moot point, because they are not to blame. Really - none of those people matter and none of the links matter unless we can point to unbreakable links to people alive and involved today. --

Couldn't agree more, Religion to these people is only a means of control and framing of discourse to expedite their schemes. A logical question arises at this point though; has the amassed wealth of one sector usurped the wealth of the other enclave and thus removed decision making from the lesser? [Notwithstanding our agreement that Religion is mere smoke and mirrors ]

SnM said: There's actually nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a homeland for the Jews, except for one thing - "The Jews" are a religion, not a race of people.--

A problem arises though, when the majority of Zionists are European and have never been in Palestine. I refer back to Kazaria and the conversion to Judaism in the 8th century, whose people would later become the stock of European Jewry. While, indegenous (Sephardi) Jews were reluctant about the Zionist project and quite content and living in peace in Asia, Persia, North & East Africa, the Levant etc. In fact, false flag operations led many of them to Palestine. Even the majority of European Jews were not enthusiastic; they had to be shocked into assent. (Just as the current project in Lebanon is attempting to shock the Lebanese people to dislodge Hizballah from their society) So again, the imperialist nature of the Israel venture must not be underestimated. It is in this sense as any other colonial endeavor.

SnM said: . Don't forget, Israel was originally touted as being in the region of Uganda. But the idea of Zionism simply as a homeland for the Jews is not what Israel is today.--

Mozambique-Uganda was utterly, rejected, what were the factors of this choice? Nascent and advancing industrialization and other technologies such as the automobile surely, were considerations for the Zionist project in its infancy if not throughout. Besides, control of the trade routes to and from India and Eastward, the evolving technologies demanded that the plentiful resources in the area be readily, available. Indeed, your point about the arms manufacturers, the black gold hits home. In fact, all the industries seem to be involved when wars break out (and end) and what better way to spice up these industries then with continued warfare. All sides must be armed, however, it seems that Israel is allowed a certain level of violence, which the rest of the area cannot have access to; specifically, fissile weaponry and other such conventional weapons. All the better to keep the wars going.

This reality of course begs the question whether proliferation is the key to a future detante? A tenable parity of destruction if you will that may level the playing field somewhat. Of course there are other forms of violence at the disposal of the "imperialists," e.g., as you mention, communications, markets, world bodies such as the UN, International Isntitutions such as IAEA, World Banking Sytems and of course the all powerful Sanctions Regime these avail. However, this would facilitate a lull to the carnage.

 
At Tuesday, August 08, 2006, Blogger Stern Gang said...

SmokeNMirrors "said:"

So, if it walks and talks like a duck, and it looks and smells like a duck, is it a duck?

It COULD be a duck. It's not WITHOUT DOUBT a duck, though; we maybe need to HEAR it and FEEL it too before we can say for racertain. But if we suspect something is probably a duck we would usually do a double take and look at it again until we were sure."

A series of bellicose bare bard's barfs 'till laughs and teardrops flowing slowly into my nostrils with syncopated jolts of Ra echoes of Ha!

 
At Tuesday, August 08, 2006, Blogger SmokeNMirrors said...

Stern Gang said...
Unless, by the time of the project, as you insinuate, the Rothschilds had already, controlled the project to a great extent and the Christian sector was left in the shadows taking orders. Nevertheless, their part in the affair means that they are culpable.

Tue Aug 08, 11:00:23 AM EDT

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. One world government, with a Rothschild as the ONE. I have no doubt that when it comes to doling out the power there'll be the bitch fight to end all bitch fights, but ultimately there can be only one winner, simply because they have all the money. Remember, corporate interests dictate national and international policy these days; if those corporate interests are controlled by one person (or one family), whose interests are those corporate interests really going to follow?

But you're right, all the hangers-on and cronies and supporters and paid sycophants are all culpable too, and we shouldn't forget them. Let's get a list compiled of every last single one of these people, ready for judgement day (which one way or another can't be far off). I just wanted to get across the point that when you consider it in terms of 1 single family (or person) having a controlling share in the worlds wealth, as it were, that single family (or person) has a controlling share of everything, full stop. That means that even if they are following an even older plan, the fact that they control it makes it THEIR plan. It also means that any ideas of balance are a red herring. You mentioned levelling the playing field, which I interpret to mean something along the lines of the Cold War, with two opposing superpowers balancing each other and effectively cancelling each other out. While that "worked", it also didn't work. Again, don't forget, the Rothschilds controlled both sides in the Cold War, and when the US technological advantage got too big they gave stuff away to keep Russia in the game. This is not balance but a rigged game, and like any rigged game it's rigged for a reason. Therefore any ideas of balance while we have one family controlling the world are a waste of time. What is needed is a complete fresh start, a total overhaul of the very concept of money and wealth, the abolition of stock markets and financial institutions as we know them, basically a worldwide revolution in the truest sense of the word. Isn't going to happen, of course, not unless you Americans (apologies if my assumption is wrong) wake up very very soon to the fact that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, we Brits wake up to the same about the Bank of England, and we then help to educate the rest of the world and open their eyes to the same things. Reform of the banking system, that's the essential first step, and without it anything else is a total waste of time.

Incidentally, I can't wait to see Freedom to Fascism; anyone over the pond Stateside seen it yet?

 
At Wednesday, August 09, 2006, Blogger Erosoplier said...

Yes smokenmirrors, death to the Fed (...), and the BoE, and the RBA here in Oz. What on earth have we all been thinking these last 100 years?!

ksdrover, thank-you.

jc, you have a point, but in this particular blog entry forum you've only managed to distract us from the topic of inquiry. We are (or should be) trying to balance the scales here, if need be, and you're carrying on fretting about the awfulness of the possibility of us tipping the scales too far. Trust us for a minute why don't ya?
It is a beast with two backs that is busy ruining this earth for all of us. Which one is on top? Today, most days, I agree with you - I've just finished reading this article - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=WHI20060807&articleId=2920 - but tomorrow I plan on finding out more about what has gone on in the past, and I don't want to have my motives impugned at every turn as I do so.

 
At Wednesday, August 09, 2006, Blogger Stern Gang said...

SmokeNMirrors said: "You mentioned leveling the playing field, which I interpret to mean something along the lines of the Cold War, with two opposing superpowers balancing each other and effectively canceling each other out. While that "worked," it also didn't work. Again, don't forget, the Rothschilds controlled both sides in the Cold War, and when the US technological advantage got too big they gave stuff away to keep Russia in the game. This is not balance but a rigged game, and like any rigged game it's rigged for a reason. Therefore any ideas of balance while we have one family controlling the world are a waste of time. What is needed is a complete fresh start, a total overhaul of the very concept of money and wealth, the abolition of stock markets and financial institutions as we know them, basically a worldwide revolution in the truest sense of the word. Isn't going to happen, of course, not unless you Americans (apologies if my assumption is wrong) wake up very very soon to the fact that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, we Brits wake up to the same about the Bank of England, and we then help to educate the rest of the world and open their eyes to the same things. Reform of the banking system, that's the essential first step, and without it anything else is a total waste of time."

Yes, you assumption is correct. Some of us living here in the US realize that even the air we breathe is privatized; lest the Fed, we have no illusions on that front. However, many of us live vicariously, through our masters.

The supposition of "leveling the playing field," sought to offer a democratic solution to the slaughter, even if temporary in lieu of its legacy, of the current carnage visiting people in a series of impositions around the globe. As I mentioned above in this thread, there are other forms of violence, but wars immediately, usurp life. Therefore, if the detrimental control of violence could be mitigated through democratic proliferation of fissile weaponry, this could significantly, reduce outright death--keeping in mind that death and dominance would continue through these other "covert" forms of violence. At which point once the killing has stopped, further measures could be devised to address the all encompassing encroachment on the globe.

Would you agree that the pillars of the siege of the world rest on a foundation of violence--perceived and actual? What if these folk possessed the mother of all deterrents? It is not perplexing that acquiring these self-defense mechanisms are forbidden and enforcement maintained through global institutions, with threats, which seek a status quo -- a monopoly in the hands of a select few.

All the people of the earth are adversely, affected by this colossal scheme of privatization in varying degrees--designingly, so in an attempt to divide and rule. Nonetheless, the killing must end.

Which came first, Israel or imperialism? Indeed, the concept of the 'Jewish Homeland’ was an invention of British colonialism in the first place, created initially to ensure continued control of the vital supply line to Britain's colonial possessions in India and the East and subsequently the discovery of oil as well as a means of suppressing the rising tide of Arab nationalism. The fulcrum of that control was Palestine which by virtue of nothing other than its geographical location close by the Suez Canal was selected as the 'homeland’ by Lord Balfour and others in 1917.

That Israel is by far the biggest recipient of Western aid only points to the vital importance of Israel/Palestine in US -- and Europe by default and necessity increasing to include India, China and others -- strategic planning, just as it did when Britain was the hegemonic power in the Middle East. It should surely, come as no surprise that just as in 1917 it was oil that was central to British strategy, so too today it is still oil, which is the reason Israel figures a crucial facilitator.

It is just as vital to recognize the fact that the Zionist State of Israel is made up of white European settlers or their descendants, who have an identical view to those of their US and European counterparts (search in vain for a brown-skinned, Moroccan/African Jew in the government of Israel--they are routinely, referred to as 'darkies' [kooshim] and relegated to a second tier in the Zionist State. Ironically, some of these Sephardi Jews take on extreme Zionist views in order to prove their loyalty and worth in the "Holy Land"). That they profess to following the teachings of the Old Testament is neither here nor there. Calling themselves the 'Chosen People’ is no different from the European colonialists who claimed their 'right’ to colonize by virtue of being Christian and 'civilized’ as opposed to the 'pagans’ they enslaved and whose land and resources they stole. In both instances, religion and 'race’ were used to justify oppression and expropriation on the basis of a fictional 'right’, one by 'race,’ the other by religion.

We must not forget that colonialism, slavery and imperialism are the bases of this wealth and power. These devices enabled the overthrow of the Nobility and the Clergy bringing forth a New Order. There may have been some diversification in the long run, nevertheless the source remains. This is not a racial analysis per se, but merely, an acknowledgment of the socioeconomic dynamics in place, which has secured the realm in the Middle East and elsewhere.

All in all, lives are at stake and only a certain level of violence in the hands of those victims being killed can deter and ultimately, preclude further destruction of lives. After all, what else could stop the killing? A regimen of which other steps are available to the people being butchered? This is by no means a call to violence by any stretch, it is simply the realization of veritable needs of a deterrent--a cessation of the killing fields. The priory of violence leads to an existential question begging a 'realpolitik' solution.

Of course, complete disarmament could conceivably, offer a similar respite from this 'systemic' destruction of lives.

 
At Wednesday, August 09, 2006, Blogger SmokeNMirrors said...

You and I are singing from the same hymn sheet, Stern Gang, except for maybe one thing. I no longer have any illusions at all. I KNOW that these unholy people who own this world have no soul, no mercy, and don't care one single breath for what happens to the individuals on this planet. Don't forget, these people would (if you believe the "conspiracy theories") like to reduce the population of this planet by 4 BILLION. They don't CARE who lives or die. The planet is vastly overpopulated anyway. As I see it, the battle we are currently involved in is a battle for the very survival of the rest of the human race, for the people at the top simply do not care. 2 billion will be more than enough to provide what they need. The only reason the population was allowed to explode the way it did was to allow these people to use us to achieve their ends. Now they have the total control and the methods to maintain it, they don't need the rest of the ants, just a workforce to keep stuff ticking over. THIS is the reality we have to face. They have the control they want, the big squeeze is all about giving them the opportunity to finally remove the last of our civil liberties - the right to life - and everything else is totally unimportant compared to stopping what is eventually going to happen. And the only way to do that is to somehow (God knows how!) to convince people that everything else is a smokescreen, and a waste of time. There is NO point in reforming the political system if you don't remove the underlying problem, which is the money system and the people who run it. Left, right, democrat, republican, socialist, communist, religion, nationalism, these are ALL red herrings, for one reason and one reason alone. The people at the top don't believe in them. The people at the top introduced these things to suck in and control the masses.

How is it going to happen? Who knows?! Fluoride in the water? Birth control programs? Forced extermination once you reach 75? Easily done; how do we know it doesn't already happen?! A combination of all the above, plus total war, should do the trick. But unless people open their eyes to what is going on it WILL happen, of that there is no doubt.

 
At Wednesday, August 09, 2006, Blogger qrswave said...

Smokenmirrors, care to contribute to the blog?

 
At Thursday, August 10, 2006, Blogger SmokeNMirrors said...

I'm flattered, and thanks, but I'll have to decline at this moment; my time is really not my own, and I'd be able to contribute very little right now.

 
At Thursday, November 02, 2006, Blogger Murteza ali said...

Well now that this war is over and EVERYONE agrees hezbullah's 3,000 martyrdon seeking warriors slaughtered the IDF cowards, i think we can say you are wrong.

Israels myth of invincibility has been crushed irrepairably.

But of course thats part of the plan... pathetic.

 
At Thursday, November 02, 2006, Blogger Murteza ali said...

Oh and so many arabs died because haifa has a large arab israeli population and that was the town hezbullah focused on cos of the port and military installations placed their... its the most important israeli town in the north.

The zionists probably deliberately put the arabs there as human shields because they care so little for arabs. Arab lives are cheap in israel... even if you have a passport

 
At Sunday, September 20, 2009, Blogger Scottish Trust Deeds said...

"I'm in debt. How do I get out of it?" It's a common question these days, and a problem that's made no easier by today's economic troubles. But whatever debts an individual is facing, they're likely to have at least one debt solution available to them. Scottish Trust Deeds is similar to an IVA, but only available to residents of Scotland. In most cases, a Trust Deed will last for three years.

 
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