Israelis Warned Before Blasts To Stay Away From Sinai
Counter-Terrorism Bureau Head Danny Arditi issued a warning to Israeli citizens just a few weeks ago to refrain from visiting any Arab country.In contrast, a statement from an eyewitness at the scene:
Speaking to Ynet, Arditi said: "The warnings in our hands lead to small organizations affiliated with al-Qaeda in one way or another. A month ago we issue a travel warning to Israelis against traveling to Egypt, including Sinai, following relatively reliable intelligence on intentions to carry out terror attacks against foreign and Israeli tourists."
"According to this report there were fear that a terror attack or an abduction of Israelis in Sinai could be carried out. We strongly advised Israeli citizens to avoid all visits in Sinai, and for Israelis staying in Sinai to leave immediately," Arditi said.
He added: "I repeated the warning that Sinai is a dangerous place according to the information in our hands. Sinai is dangerous to tourists in general and to Israelis specifically. I call on everyone planning to travel to Sinai on Independence Day and in the near future not to do it and for Israelis in Sinai to return to Israel immediately."
British tourist Paul McBeath told Sky News that there had been "no warning whatsoever."Draw your own conclusions.
"There were just three loud bangs and people rushing around," McBeath said. "Everybody is shaken."
--------------------------------
UPDATE: I recommend you read the comments to this post. However, one comment is particularly important.
This is a conflicting report from Debkafile that not only says that there was NO warning, but also says Israelis were ASSURED by Egyptian officials that there was NO danger in Sinai.
DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources add:It's not clear which report is true, though every other news site reports that Israel did warn its citizens. Regardless which report is accurate, however, Israel has some explaining to do.
"This year, Israelis joined the stream of foreign tourists to Sinai after Egypt informed Israel and the United States that its security forces had cleared the al Qaeda cells out of their sanctuaries in the central Sinai Hilal mountain range and the Bedouin tribes and the peninsula resorts were now safe.
For the first time in three years, Jerusalem did not issue a warning to Israeli travelers to stay clear of Sina for the Passover holiday which ended last week."
posted by qrswave @ Monday, April 24, 2006
100 Comments:
Israel is eeeevil.
There are no Muslim terrorists. IT IS ALL MOSSAD!
There are no Palestinian suicide bombers. IT IS ALL MOSSAD BOMBING THEIR OWN PEOPLE!
The media LIES whenever it has anything good to say about Israel.
Be paranoid. Israel is out to get you.
Israel is EEEEEVIL!!!
Iran is eeeevil.
There are no American/Israeli/British terrorists. IT IS ALL Al-Qaeda!
There are no IDF attacks on Palestinian civilians. IT IS ALL PALESTINIANS BOMBING ISRAELIS FOR NO REASON!
The media LIES whenever it has anything good to say about Palestinians.
Be paranoid. Muslims are out to get you.
Iran is EEEEEVIL!!!
Anon,
Your parody would be appropos if I actually said any of that. I didn't. I never said al queda operates in a vacuum, but then again, it does exist.
Furthermore, Iran is NOT a good country. I don't advocate bombing the nation, and generally dislike using the word "evil," but it is a state with a piss poor human rights record that has stated it wants to destroy Israel and is out seeking nukes. Ignore facts if you want.
So let's sum up Anon's viewpoint.
Anyone who thinks Israel is not evil thinks Iran is eeeevil!
Anyone who thinks that there are Muslims terrorists think that only al queda exists, in a vacuum!
Anyone who thinks that Israel in fact DOES suffer from suicide bombing attacks refuses to acknowledge the fact that the IDF has gone overboard against Palestinians!
Anyone who thinks the Arab media LIES about Israel thinks that there can never be anything truthful said about Palestinians, if it is good!
Anyone who thinks that the sort of paranoid thinking whereby Israel/America is out to get them is themselves paranoid about those damned Muslims!
Yeah. One of us is engaged in reductionist, one sided, and paranoid thinking. It surely is not me.
Point is -- the US did not have enemies in the Mideast -- until Israel became our so called No. 1 "ally" - to the tune of blackmailing the US citizens out of billions of tax dollars. Do any of the pro Israel people here recall the Lavon Affair or the attack on the USS Liberty? Leopards do not change their spots -- and bears do shit in the woods! And Israel is E - V- I - L TO THE CORE OF THEIR DIMONA NUCLEAR FACILITIES.
"Channel 10 TV reported three Israelis were wounded in the blasts and were being evacuated to Israel. However, Israeli ambassador to Egypt Shalom Cohen later said there three were not wounded in the attacks.
According to the Foreign Ministry, there were some 5,000 Israelis currently in Sinai at the time of the bombings."
BTW - FACT: On a typical day, Dahab is FULL of Israeli tourists.
I report, you decide.
Any reasonable person would not come to any conclusion per se based on that news item you quoted.
Only an unreasonable person would somehow think Israel did anything wrong based on that.
Keep your news items coming, and I will continue to note the blatant one-sided and paranoid nature of this blog.
You know, Miss R, it's funny. My original post said nothing other than what was quoted in Israeli press. Yet, you jumped to some unfavorable conclusions and accused me of bias against Israel.
Apparently, since you thought along the same lines, my conclusions are not so unreasonable, after all.
Miss R,
Anon 1 here. Sorry for the simplistic diatribe, but I figured tit for tat, eh? You singlehandedly reject any wrongdoing on the part of the state of Israel. Yet, time after time Israel has been caught spying, buying off the US congress, etc.
As for the Israeli-Palestinian situation, yeah I do read your posts and yeah, I do think you come down a bit light on the IDF's overboard tactics. Any chance you are Jewish yourself? I could care less what someone's religion is, as long as they do not impose it upon me, or use it to justify horrible violence. Both sides are screwed up, but the side which has the inordinate amount of the power doesn't seem to be showing any particular restraint or for that matter offering acceptable compromise.
I do not presuppose Iran is a good country. Nor do I presuppose Israel is a good country. Come to think of it, I don't think the United States is a good country. At least if we are talking about the governments of these nations.
Good government would not get us all in the mess that these governments have.
QRS,
You ended what was a neutral article in the Israeli press with the following:
Draw your own conclusions.
In private discussions, you stated you believe somehow there are no Palestinian suicide bombers, and in fact it is Israel bombing its own people. You have alluded to this many times on the blog. It is quite reasonable for me to assume that you wanted people to draw the conclusion, based on that, that Israel is planning to bomb its own people, OR that it will be involved in some sort of bomb conspiracy.
Your conclusions and thoughts about Israel are not only heinous, but deeply offensive.
And so, Anon, given I know QRS quite well, and I know her perspective, I often try to provide this blog with a different perspective.
Even when perhaps the IDF did or does go overboard, I will provide explanations for why that is so, because I see how Israel is so unformly maligned in the Arab world, and in the far leftist community. I also happen to think that many of the so-called "atrocities" Israel has commited are either exaggerations, lies, or were openly provoked by Palestinians. This blog perpetuates such exaggerations, lies, and one-sided tales that do not speak to how Israel was provoked. Has Israel done wrong? Sure. It's not a perfect nation, and they have overreacted to Palestinian violence in the past. But it is NOT the sort of evil nation this blog makes it out to be. In fact, it's better than most, especially given it's situation.
As far as the "mainstream media" goes, I do not see them as necessarily unbiased, but they are far LESS BIASED on at least this one issue than this blog is.
This blog perpetuates such exaggerations, lies, and one-sided tales that do not speak to how Israel was provoked.
There is no longer any way of determining who is provoking whom in this situation. But I don't see either side being reasonable.
I might point out that the U.S. State Department's Consular Information sheet on Egypt also warns of the danger of terror attacks in the Sinai. So did the British Foreign Ministry. And both of those countries issued a specific Travel Warning for Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.
Apparently the foreign ministries of Israel, Britain and the USA recognize that Muslim terrorists like to blow up tourists, especially in an easy-to-reach place like the Sinai -- which has the added bonus of being located in an "apostate" country that committed the sin of negotiating peace with Israel.
stuiec, you got some links to back up your assertions?
another eyewitness statement:
"There were just three loud bangs and people rushing around," he told Sky News. "Everybody is shaken." Rene Overgaard, a shipping executive from Cairo who had travelled to Dahab for a long weekend, said he believed the blasts had been well planned and well coordinated.
"There were three explosions very close together, near the water fountain close to the Ghazala supermarket," he said.
"It looks as if there was a second location, on the [pedestrian] bridge [by the beach]. This was incredibly well coordinated. They went off within seconds of each other. And maybe there's somewhere else. There were quite a few casualties if the carnage on the ground is anything to go by."
Inductive Logic Infallibly Indicts The Jew
(Mighty Thor, 24 Apr 06)
U pathetic weaklings and liars, proponents of Jews and Israelis: all inductive evidence, i.e., evidence which then induces most logically, leads ineluctably to conclusion Jews, Jews, Jews, as foremost murderers, liars, and aggressors--and this perfectly in accord with their putrid, stinking Talmudic religion of hysteria and perpetual, everlasting war against the gentile. See Michael A. Hoffman II's "Judaism's Strange Gods"; also ck Ted Pike's "Israel: Our Duty--Our Dilemma.
For note Judaic Talmud commemmorates the murder of Christ, the Son of God, for the crimes of blasphemy and heresy, the Son of God not good enough for these scummy, filthy, stinking, monstrosities of sanctimonious righteousness who pretend they're the "apple" of God's "eye."
With a filth-gutter religion like such Talmudism which exhorts Godly instruction upon such Judaic warfare and aggression, is it any wonder Jews deify lying, fraud, and deception as integral instrument(s) of such "holy" warfare? Witness the infamous "Kol Nidre" prayer of the Jews, upheld as foremost sacred necessity by which Jews absolve themselves beforehand for the lies and frauds they habitually, systematically, and methodically employ--not only against the gentiles but even against one another as it is expedient--as the number of potential gentile victims naturally recedes.
For observe the Jews' characteristic and thematic COLLECTIVISM, holding themselves judged by God as a people most of all, collectivists notorious in not hesitating to sacrifice some for the benefit of others--indeed, typically the many of lesser intelligence for the benefit of the topmost masterminds.
If anyone wants gripping photographic-type dramatization against Jews as foremost terrorists, murderers, and aggressors, just ck Judicial-inc.biz website. And it's merely established, indisputable fact Jews are foremost criminals and gangsters totally dominating the US since at least the days of "Prohibition." Ck Michael Collins Piper's "The New Jerusalem."
And all evidence leads to conclusion "al qaeda" is mere CIA-Mossad front, Bin-Laden himself a known CIA agent fm way, way back, Arabs used as fallguys. Mohammed Atta, alleged 9-11 ringleader, was reported seen cavorting on one of Jack Abramoff's gambling cruisers. Ck theMadCow.com.
For it's true human life is so often such grim warfare, the Jews then just organizing it and putting an edge to it, the Judaic God simply a War-God, a mere heavenly contract-killer and glorified attack-dog for the Jews.
Historically, this latest phase of Judaic warfare against the world, as in form of socialism, began with the rise of the Jew banking family of Rothschild before, during, and especially after the Napoleonic wars in Europe. See G. Edward Griffin's "Creature From Jekyll Island."
Note then Judaism is mere ultra-Subjectivism by which Jews uphold themselves as co-equal of God, God lusting after them, pursuing them as male pursues the female, the Jews collectivistically so symbolized--as in Old Testament Books, Song of Songs, Hosea, and Ezekiel, not to mention Deuteronomy.
It's only most gross ignorance which pretends to not understanding the Jew war-plan-strategy as explicitly presented in Talmud--then additionally the deliberate ignoring of perception and facts as such war-plan-strategy is executed in actual reality and reported journalistically day after day after day.
CONCLUSION: No, removing Jews wouldn't remove the natural human tendency to warfare and sin, but it would certainly relieve the present critical world situation unquestionably and for a great, good while, indubitably. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
Correction: theMadCow.com is mistaken--should be theMadCow.org, though I can't raise the site just now at the minute. Sorry for the error. Thor
A conflicting statement published April 25, 2006, 12:12 AM (GMT+02:00):
DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources add:
This year, Israelis joined the stream of foreign tourists to Sinai after Egypt informed Israel and the United States that its security forces had cleared the al Qaeda cells out of their sanctuaries in the central Sinai Hilal mountain range and the Bedouin tribes and the peninsula resorts were now safe.
For the first time in three years, Jerusalem did not issue a warning to Israeli travelers to stay clear of Sina for the Passover holiday which ended last week."
It will be interesting to see which version gets 'corrected.' So far, no other news site has reported the quote published in Ynet News. The Ynet piece is dated: 04.24.06, 22:47
Sorry, forgot to include the link to Debkafile.
Here's another notable eyewitness statement:
"I saw people without heads, without legs, without nothing [taken] to the hospital," said Joseph Pouitou, a 24-year-old Israeli backpacker who was just 20 metres from the blast.
"I was in Israel 24 years [and] I never saw a big bomb like this. I see 20 people die - bodies on the ground," Mr Pouitou told smh.com.au.
"I never come back here [to Egypt] again. What I see here today, enough for me all my life. A lot of people get hurt, a lot of European people and Americans get hurt here. I saw a couple tourists die. All the people get panic and don't know what to do."
Also worth noting, in light of the Israeli counter-terrorism head's specific mention of "Independence Day":
The bombings struck on Sham el-Nessim, a traditional holiday which marks the beginning of spring, and a day before Sinai Liberation Day which celebrates Israel's withdrawal from the peninsula in 1982.
Let the US negotiate this one...What a crock! The US needs to remove their soiled bargaining chips from the moth of the lamb! If the US adds any undue (or even due) pressure she'll blow wide open, if we are not already to the tipping point...
Oops... That's "mouth"... drat...
LOL...you're funny, poetryman..:)
If I had a nickle for every typo I made, I'd be rich.
Or, no wait a second - the Fed would then print trillions of dollars and I'd be back to square one!
:(
Another eyewitness quote:
Jamie Gibbs, a British windsurf teacher working in the area, said he and colleagues went to try and help.
He added: "From what we saw there were so many Egyptians injured compared to the tourists out here."
QRS believes in cherry picking evidence. Here is a perfect example of it. The very article that QRS quoted from contained statements found earlier. I am going to quote it for you.
Only five days ago, Egyptian television suddenly stopped regular programming and announced in an urgent message from the Egyptian Interior Ministry that Islamic extremist terror activity was uncovered.
"Security forces recently arrested 22 people who were active in the secret organization called 'al-Taifa al-Mansur (The Victorious Sect). The terror activists were arrested in various neighborhoods in Cairo and south of the Egyptian capital," the message said.
The interior ministry said that "the accused planned to carry out terrorist operations against tourism sites, a strike against the natural gas pipeline around Cairo, and other sensitive sites through the placing of devices. They also examined the possibility of striking Muslim religious figures and Copts, as well as youths in entertainment districts. The heads of the organizations communicated with foreign elements in order to train activists abroad."
In other words, Egyptians themselves were warned. The Egyptian government warned Egyptian citizens of terror to come. Of course, QRS does not list this. Using her nonsensical logic, it would lead to the conclusion that somehow Egypt "planned" the terror.
Instead, how about the more obvious conclusion? That Egypt and Israel had intelligence of upcoming attacks, did what they could to stop it, yet still were ultimately unsuccessful?
This would be a reasoned conclusion that does not involve hysterical Israel-bashing, so of course it is not found on this blog.
Well, thank God we have people like you to balance things out.
Care to come up with a theory for why there would be conflicting reports as to whether or not there were warnings from Israeli sources (the one in the post and the one from Debkafile)?
Incidentally, there is no mention of Sinai in the quotes from Egyptian officials, whereas Sinai is not only repeated several times in the warning from the Israeli official, he also mentions specific timing, i.e., close to independence day, which is the day after the bomb went off.
And in any event, I don't KNOW anything. I draw people's attention to statements that I find odd and let people draw their own conclusions. Indeed YOU were the first one to draw the same conclusion you fault me for drawing.
I did not draw any conclusion. I just know you immediately assumed that somehow Israel bombed the Sinai, or thought that the most likely possibility.
Why was there conflicting press? I read the articles you quoted from, and none of them said there was no warning in the days before the attack - they simply said there was no warning RIGHT BEFORE the attack happened. I do not see this as conflicting.
Your immediate response is to search for the conspiracy with which to blame Israel. I know you are smarter than that, so I find it quite disturbing.
Who are you kidding? The Debkafile report not only says that there was no warning, they said they were ASSURED that there was no danger. I quote again for those who are lazy:
DEBKAfile's counter-terror sources add:
"This year, Israelis joined the stream of foreign tourists to Sinai after Egypt informed Israel and the United States that its security forces had cleared the al Qaeda cells out of their sanctuaries in the central Sinai Hilal mountain range and the Bedouin tribes and the peninsula resorts were now safe.
For the first time in three years, Jerusalem did not issue a warning to Israeli travelers to stay clear of Sina for the Passover holiday which ended last week."
QRS,
If in fact you believe the Dekalb file, then you should place zero credibility within the Israeli source with which you pin paranoid thoughts that "Jews were warned" of the attacks, while Muslims were not.
The source you cited says that BOTH Israelis AND Egyptians were warned. If one part is wrong (that Egpytians were not warned), it stands to reason that the other part is ALSO wrong (the Israelis were not warned).
Hey, I don't know which is true.
I merely point out that both statements exist and that each statement contradicts the other.
An odd and blatant contradiction to be sure. As an objective observer, it will be interesting to see which gets corrected. If neither is corrected, the "disinformation article" aguably becomes more apparent.
I searched the internet, and found article after article saying that Israel very publicly warned its citizens that there were attacks to come in the Sinai - which citizens basically ignored. I am going to go out on a limb and say the Debkafile article is simple WRONG.
http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2006/04/24/news/egypt.php
Haaretz said most of those who were killed in Thursday's attacks were Israelis. This does not conflict with earlier reports, as bodies were still being identified.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=485939&contrassID=13
So we are led to conclude that Israeli officials warned of an attack to come. THIS DOES NOT MEAN ISRAEL PLANNED ANYTHING.
Only the paranoid and conspiracy-minded would jump to such an absurd conclusion.
I want to add that these sites also speak to a Bin Laden tape that surfaced the day before the attacks, speaking of a crusade against Zionism. Perhaps that is what the original article was referring to.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/24/egypt.blasts/index.html
I like the way reports said that Israel offered assistance - presumably the same sort of "assistance" they offered the USS Liberty, or the ferry which they sank with a truckload of phosphorus and sabotaged drainage pumps merely days after Egypt had refused to observe Israel's UN Resolution calling for January 27 as Holocaust Memorial Day, or the July 23 Sharm al-Sheikh victims of Israel's revenge for being double-crossed over a British Gas-Egypt deal for supply of Gaza gas. It's not the religion that is the problem, it's the genocidal cabal who have hijacked it for political and business purposes, and who hide behind the Jewish people's coat-tails as the criminals continue with their plans for global enslavement. Once the arch-villains have been identified, convicted, and taken out of circulation, the Jewish people will be able to take their rightful place as respected, remarkable contributors to humankind.
The USS Liberty was not purposely sunk. In fact, there was zero motivation to sink the Liberty, and every reason to avoid such an attack. Instead of believing paranoid far leftist sites, why not examine the facts for yourself?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
The wiki link has an extensive list of citations.
And poseidon,
I am not aware of the other attacks you mentioned, though I am sure there are similar very obvious explanations as to why they happened. So I am asking for links to what you claimed happened. Even if there is no logical explanation of those TWO INCIDENTS, it does not turn Israel into a rogue state, simply because of TWO INCIDENTS.
Miss R, Wiki is as balanced as FOX.
9/11 was an inside job
the heck with wiki and Miss R, just read eyewitness accounts of survivors from the attack on the USS Liberty. Right her e:
http://www.ussliberty.org/
Maybe Miss R would like to call them liars as well. Me and my conspiracy theorist, paranoid mind thinks Miss R might be Israeli intelligence if she was not so mis, dis, uninformed. NAAAAAAH, SHE IS JUST PLAIN OLE STUPID
Please click on my site www.takeourworldback.com for links. (Incidents are in chronological order.) This is not about right vs left; it's about right vs wrong.
Sorry for the long msg, but i think its only fair from the Palastinian prospective that we give them coverage.
Israeli crimes blanked out in UK, but...
Scotland, Thursday, April 18th, 2006
The Tel Aviv bombing on Monday received intensive, extensive, and poignant BBC coverage, including pictures of pieces of human flesh shredded by the force of the explosion. Below is a partial list from occupied Palestine of shillings, killings, robberies, savage beatings, attacks on schools and infrastructure, home demolitions, kidnappings, the use of sewage as a weapon, and more. Virtually all of these Israeli government, military and settler crimes went unreported. BBC viewers were told that Israel would 'retaliate' for the Tel Aviv bombing: we are seeing more of the collective reprisals, themselves war crimes that Palestinians are used to. The Islamic Jihad bomber was not shown as 'retaliating' for any of the thousands of shells Israel has fired into Gaza in recent days; killing children. Viewers are left with the impression of a motiveless, irrational violence, probably caused by hatred of Jews.
Is killing people with high explosives a crime only when the perpetrator doesn't survive? If they go home for a cup of tea afterward and watch TV with their own children, does that make child-murder any less of a crime? Tony Blair and the BBC certainly think so.
The miracle is that so many see through the dishonesty of the BBC and other major British media.
Please join the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and campaign against crime and murder.
British arms sales to Israel doubled in the past year
Palestine,
24 hours to 8am April 19, 2006
Tear-gas grenades fired at schoolchildren
Suicide bomber's parents' house to be destroyed
Israeli troops hold mothers of Occupation resisters
Israeli troops beat up & hospitalise man at work on his land
Israeli soldiers desecrate mosque
3 children injured during Israeli incursions
Journalist beaten up & hospitalised by Occupation troops
322 shells hit northern Gaza in 24-hour day & night blitz
Israeli shelling wounds child & 2 adults.
24 hours to 8am April 18, 2006
Boy aged 14 killed in Israeli shelling
1 air raid – 18 attacks – 36 raids – 26 wounded
Schoolboy injured & school principal beaten up
Village school & homes occupied by Israeli Army
Many homes invaded & 10 occupied by Israeli military
Jenin – 10 children & 10 adults wounded in Israeli incursion
Settlers beat up shepherd & steal 20 sheep
Refugee girl (6) & another child wounded in Israeli raid
Man beaten up & hospitalised during Israeli incursion
24 hours to 8am April 17, 2006
9 killed in Tel Aviv bombing*
Israeli army invdes Gaza. Nablus, Jenin, Qalqilya
Israeli aircraft fires missile at Gaza
Continued military operations conducted by Israel in the northern Gaza Strip - many casualties
Palestinian child killed and two injured by artillery shell near a playground in Beit Lahia.
Artillery shells fired at Sheikh Zayed town, Gaza, near a playground. Mamdouh 'Obaid, died on the way to the hospital.
Wounded, Mohammed Abu Tabaq, 14, and 'Ammar al-Kas, 15.
Tanks shell ed the northern Gaza Strip for the past several days. Hundreds of shells have hit Palestinian homes and civilian and security facilities, According to Israeli sources, 200-300 shells are fired daily at the Gaza Strip. Three Palestinian civilians, including two children, have been killed and 47 other civilians, including 17 children, wounded by the Israeli shelling in the past 8 days. Considerable damage has also been caused to houses, farms, buildings and infrastructure.
PCHR (Palestine Commission for Human Rights) is increasingly concerned over the continued killing of Palestinian civilians, especially children, by the Israeli Military .Since the beginning of 2006, IOF have killed 15 Palestinian children ( 8 in the West Bank and 7 in the Gaza Strip). Thus, the number of Palestinian children killed by IOF in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, since the beginning of the current Intifada in September 2000, has increased to 666.
24 hours to 8am April 17, 2006
9 Wounded in Israeli Incursion into Jenin
Checkpoint Pedestrians Shot at & Attacked with Tear-gas Grenades
Jewellery Taken by Israeli Soldiers in Home Invasion
139 Shells Hit Northern Gaza
Shelling Knocks out Power Grid
2 Curfews
Jerusalem Resident Beaten & Hospitalised
Settlers Stone Vehicles.
24 hours to 8am April 16, 2006
Palestinian Dies from Air Raid Wounds
Villagers' Homes Under Israeli Fire
Israeli Soldiers Beat and Injure Shepherd
Boy (14) Wounded During Israelis Incursion
Man Critically Injured as Israelis Fire on Vehicle
Mentally Handicapped Man Taken Prisoner
Boy (15) Wounded as Israelis Shoot at Civilians
Settlers Beat Up Father & Daughter & Destroy Vineyard.
48 hours to 8am April 15, 2006
Friday
Boy (15) Wounded by Occupation Gunfire
Settlers Assault & Expel International Journalists
No Sleep as F16s Menace Night Skies
6 Attacks
2 Houses Occupied – Many Invaded
23 Raids
Saturday
Man Wounded as Israelis Open Fire in Jerusalem
Boy (15) Taken Prisoner in Home Invasion
Settler Bikers Close Main Road
Troops Beat Up Petrol Station Attendant
Resident Wounded During Israeli Incursion
250 Shells in 23-hour Night & Day Bombardment of Northern Gaza
Israeli Navy Shelling Wounds Two Civilians.
24 hours to 8am April 13, 2006
2 Palestinian Deaths
School Attacked with Stun-Grenades & Tear-Gas
Checkpoint Beating – Man Hospitalised with Internal Bleeding
Boy (17) Deliberately Run Over by Israeli Army Jeep
Israel Orders Gross Desecration of Ibrahimi Mosque
1 Air Raid – 22 Raids – 10 Attacks.
24 hours to 8am April 12, 2006
Occupation claims another child's life
Checkpoint troops beat & hospitalise mentally handicapped man
3 Palestinians hospitalised in yet another checkpoint beating
Mosque worshippers stripped & forced naked into the streets
Settlers close road – raid village – set fire to vehicle
Indiscriminate Israeli fire wounds woman aged 70
231 Israeli shells slam into Gaza
25 Taken Prisoner.
24 hours to 8am April 11, 2006
Shells Hit Houses 1 Death – Girl Aged 7
197 Shells Fired in Day & Night Bombardments
12 Wounded – Including Little Girl in Critical Condition
13 Attacks
27 Raids – 27 Prisoners Taken
67 Restrictions of Movement
Stolen Land to be Used for Racially Segregated Jewish Road
Israeli Shells Set Fire to Palestinian Crops
Israel Orders Destruction of 2 Palestinian Homes.
24 hours to 8am April 10, 2006
3 Deaths Including Boy (17)
Israeli Special Forces Murder Palestinian National Security Officer
Taxi Driver Killed & 8 Wounded in Israeli Shelling
2 Adults & 3 Children Wounded in Day & Night Israeli Shelling
Palestinian Houses Damaged by Israeli Shells
Israeli Army Violence Helps Settlers Occupy Palestinian Home
Homes Vandalised as Israeli Troops Invade Houses
Settlers Seize More Palestinian Land.
24 hours to 8am April 9, 2006
[Source of statistics: Palestinian Monitoring Group]
8 Dead (Total this Month: 18 Including 2 Children)
22 Wounded
2 Air Raids
23 Attacks
21 Raids
68 Restrictions of Movement
Man Hospitalised in Yet Another Checkpoint Beating
Families Forced From Their Homes
Occupation Troops Beat Up Shopkeeper – Vandalise Shop
Settlers Plant Olive Trees on Stolen Palestinian Land.
48 hours to 8am April 8, 2006
Friday
1 Death - 3 Wounded in Same Attack
4 Air raids – 22 Attacks – 26 Raids
20 Taken Prisoner
Total Wounded – 16 {Including 2 Children}
Refugee Boy (17) Critically Wounded
318 Shells Fired Into Northern Gaza
Call to Prayer Still Silenced
61 Restrictions of Movement
Settler Gunmen Shoot Up Village
Israeli Soldiers Beat Up & Hospitalise Hebron Resident
Saturday
4 Dead in Missile Strike 1 Child Aged 7 Among the Dead & 15 Wounded
20 Wounded in Total
2 Air Raids
19 Attacks
23 Raids
65 Restrictions of Movement
1 House Demolished.
24 hours to 8am April 6, 2006
9 Wounded (6 of them Children) During Israeli Incursion
112 Shells Fired into Northern Gaza
Israel Silences Call to Prayer from Ibrahimi Mosque
Another Home Demolished
39 Taken Prisoner Including Palestinian Minister
18 Attacks
29 Raids
61 Restrictions of Movement.
24 hours to 8am April 5, 2006
Israeli Shelling Kills Palestinian
152 Shells Fired on Northern Gaza
House Shelled – Baby (6 Months) & 3 Others Wounded
3 Air raids – 2 Wounded
16 Attacks
34 Raids – 2 Children Wounded
64 Restrictions of Movement
Man Suffers Fractures in Another Checkpoint Beating
Residents Beaten & Confined in 4-hour Home Invasion
Shelling Wounds Man & Damages Sewage Works.
24 hours to 8am April 3, 2006
1 Death & 5 Wounded
10 Attacks
24 Raids
61 Restrictions of Movement
Homes Invaded – 7 Residents Tear-gassed
Settlement of Ariel Deliberately Pollutes Salfit Water Supply
Israeli Shelling Wounds Child (7) & Adult
139 Shells Fired from Israel into Northern Gaza.
24 hours to 8am April 2, 2006
11 Attacks
17 Raids
66 Restrictions of Movement
Raiding Settlers Beat Up Man Aged 60
Family Home Occupied in 32-hour Ordeal
Stone-throwing Settlers Injure International Observer
Settlers Stone Schoolgirls & Houses
Over 133 Israeli Shells Hit Northern Gaza
Israeli Navy Shelling Cuts Power Near Beit Lahiya
Israelis Prevent Repair Work to Electricity Supply.
24 hours to 8am April 1, 2006
Friday
4 Israeli Settlers & 1 Palestinian Killed in Suicide Bombing
7 Air raids
9 Attacks
13 Raids
7 Wounded Including a Child
7 Beatings – Boy (17) Hospitalised
Houses Damaged as Israeli Troops Break In
Settler Gunmen Steal Sheep
Settlers Beat Up 3 Villagers
69 Shells and 8 Missiles Fired Into Palestinian Territory
Missile Damages Children's Playground
Missiles Destroy Sewerage & Overpass
Saturday
1 Death – Buried Alive by Israeli Bulldozers
2 Air raids – Street & Another Children's Playground Hit
15 Attacks
15 Raids
8-year-old Girl Injured in Israeli Home Invasion
Checkpoint Beating – Physically Handicapped Man Hospitalised
Checkpoint Beating – Woman's Arm Broken
Checkpoint Troops Stone Palestinian Vehicles
Israelis Fire 94 Shells & 4 Missiles
72 Restrictions of Movement
24 hours to 8am March 30, 2006
19 Attacks
28 Raids
Refugee Suffers Stroke in Terrifying Home Invasion Ordeal
Physically Handicapped Refugee Assaulted in Home Invasion
Boy (13) Beaten Up & Leg Broken as Israelis Raid His Home
Settler Gunmen Open Fire on Palestinian Ministry Vehicle
Settler Vehicle Runs Over & Injures Girl (12)
Two 14-year-old Shepherds Taken Prisoner.
24 hours to 8am March 29, 2006
7 Attacks – 1 Person Wounded in Hebron
30 Raids – 2 Children Wounded
60 Restrictions of Movement
Jerusalem – Settlers Occupy Palestinian Man's Home
Villager Beaten Up During Israeli Incursion
Settler Gunman Threatens Vehicles on Main Road
Israeli Soldiers in Jerusalem Beat Up & Hospitalise Palestinian Man
Israeli Settlers Beat Up Palestinian Farmers & Stone People's Homes.
24 hours to 8am March 28, 2006
12 Attacks – Resident Shot Dead in Home Invasion
26 Raids – 8-year-old Refugee Child Wounded
Man Beaten Up During Israeli Incursion
Refugees Beaten During Incursion into Refugee Camp
Palestinian Shepherds Under Fire from Green Line
Villagers Forced to Sign to Hebrew-Written Documents.
24 hours to 8am March 27, 2006
1 Death
6 Air Raids
8 Attacks
28 Raids
Two Wounded in Missile Strike on School
Israel Closes Al Aqsa Mosque Compound
Israel Orders Destruction of Mosque & Kindergarten
Man Hospitalised in Yet Another Checkpoint Beating
Two Men Hospitalised After Savage Beating
Settler Gunmen Beat Family Members with Clubs & Rifle Butts.
24 hours to 8am March 26, 2006
Boy (16) Shot Dead on Green Line
1 Air Raid
8 Attacks
19 Raids
Hundreds of Fruit Trees Destroyed for Segregated Jewish Road
Settlers Destroy Olive Trees
Settlers Invade & Trash Home – Beat Up Children & Father
Israeli Navy Fire Off Rafah City Beach.
48 hours to 8am March 25, 2006
24 Attacks
39 Raids
13 Wounded
Friday
53 Restrictions of Movement
Home Invasion; Contents Trashed & Holy Qur'an Burnt
3 Palestinians Beaten Up
Resident Shot & Wounded During Israeli Incursion
Israeli Death Threats to Residents of Northern Gaza
Israeli Navy Fires on Beach at Rafah
Saturday
House Partially Demolished in Israeli Incursion
Boy Critically Wounded by Abandoned Israeli Mortar
Israeli Violence Represses Protests – Many Beatings & Injuries
Child Shot & Wounded During Protest Meeting
Israeli Army Beats Up Boy Aged 14
Occupation Troops Rampage in Hebron
Settlers Destroy Palestinian Olive Trees
24 hours to 8am March 23, 2006
2 Dead
14 Attacks – 27 Raids
26 Taken Prisoner Including Wounded Child
2 Houses Demolished
3 Land Thefts
1 Curfew
60 Restrictions of Movement
Villager Savagely Beaten & Hospitalised
Palestinian Security Officer Hurt in Another Checkpoint Beating
24 hours to 8am March 22, 2006
Refugee Shot Dead in Israeli Incursion & Home Invasion
7 Attacks
27 Raids - 1 Wounded
36 Taken Prisoner
1 House Demolished
59 Restrictions of Movement
Israeli Navy Fires on Fishing Boats & Nearby Beach
24 hours to 8am March 21, 2006
10 Attacks – 7 Wounded – 19 Raids
20 Taken Prisoner – 16 Detained
3 Additional Annexation Wall Building Sites: Total 31
56 Restrictions of Movement
Many Terrifying Night Home Invasions in 9 Towns & Villages
Cruel Violation in Land Trapped by Israel's Annexation Wall
24 hours to 8am March 20, 2006
Woman Beaten & Hospitalised in Checkpoint Beating
9 Attacks
1 Wounded in Shelling of Northern Gaza
28 Raids
22 Taken Prisoner
53 Restrictions of Movement
Cash Taken from Home during Home Invasion.
24 hours to 8am March 19, 2006
Correction to yesterday's report: the little girl shot dead by Israeli troops was described as being twelve years of age. In fact Akbar Zayed was eight years old.
2 Air Raids
1 Attack
22 Raids
64 Additional Restrictions of Movement
Checkpoint Detainees Subjected to Prophet Mohammed Insults.
48 hours to 8am March 18, 2006
Saturday
9 Attacks – Israeli Troops Shoot & Wound 2 Children
3 Injuries
20 Raids
54 Additional Restrictions of Movement
Checkpoint Soldiers Shoot & Wound Taxi Driver
Two Residents Beaten During Home Invasions
Sunday
12-year-old-Girl Dies in Enemy Assault on Yamun
14 Wounded
13 Attacks
24 Raids
52 Additional Restrictions of Movement
1 House Partially Demolished
One should think about if 'overboard' is really the right word to be using to describe the inhumane treatment of the Palastinans by the israeli governement forces. Iran and Israel are 2 diffrent stories. Israel doesnt know the meaning of the word human rights compared to Iran. You see, how many of UN resoloutions has the Israeli's breached and then how many has the Iranian's breached. This should be a good measure of how good a country truly is.
Injustice can push man to his outer most limits.
Peace
Spiffy Skipjack, ESQ. here. Israel needs to stop using the U.S. as its bodyguard and start nuking every Middle East country themselves. Palestinians? Poison the water supply - THEN drop the bomb. Iran? Turn Tehran into a glass parking lot. Shoot anyone who as much raises a squeak about it. Give 'em all 30 days to move out to the desert. Give them nothing to come back to. I'm tired of all these looney religious nuts praying 100% of the day about how the "Great Satan" is stopping them from being righteous. HOW? Cause we sell Coca-Cola to their kids? Give me a break! Even my 19 cats can know to turn away from the TV if they don't like what they hear. Ignorance is bliss - But leave my remote control alone, I say!!
-Spiffy
Who concerns you most the mossad or some element of al queda with nothing to prove? The history of the former is much, much longer and bloodier!
Spiffy (and ESQ too? YIKES!) thanks for your two cents worth. Now, we know who's been advising Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Israoil:
You are the liar or at least the dupe. In fact, many more than one Jew died on 9/11. In fact, I should know this, as I worked for the Port Authority, which lost 75 employees on 9/11.
Anon 9:38 am:
Please provide links and context for everything you cited. You can rile up tensions and anger by making up or listing statistics, without giving any explanation or proof that any of it happened. But I live in a reality-based world that looks at FACTS before coming to conclusions.
Poseidon:
I went to your website, where you actually claimed that there were no gas chambers during the Holocaust, and then go about linking to judicial-inc for your "proof" of allegations. This is the same exact site that our friend "Mighty Thor" links to regularly.
This only goes to prove that the hysterical and lie-based hatred of Israel is in fact deeply rooted in anti-Jewish hatred.
QRS,
I do not advocate Spike's position, and find it deplorable. And yet, you have people on your website who have claimed the Holocaust never happened and all sorts of LIES (proven LIES) about Israel - and you do not get up in arms. Why the selective indignation?
One more thing to Israoil:
Your term "Jew lovers" pretty much underscores how you really feel on the subject.
There is a diffrence between Jews and Zionists. Dont slander the Jews by relating them to Israel. Does it not say in the holy Torah.
Dont return to the promised land once you have exiled.
You zionists cant even read and yet you claim it is your promised land.
Get you facts straight.
Anon 10:30 am:
I am not confusing anything. However, those who criticize Israel often do so simply BECAUSE it holds itself out as a Jewish state. Look at confab, if you want further proof of this. He is a Holocaust denier who says those who support Israel are "Jew lovers."
I do not base any claim to the State of Israel upon the Torah. I base it upon a long history of Jews being in the region, and a concept of fairness. Furthermore, I am atheist, so why would I base anything on the Torah?
Miss r, I'll reply to your comment in a minute. Right now, I'd like to post a strange quote, that I can't make any sense of, from the same news site that published the quotes in the post. I'll include the quote in context so you do not accuse me of taking it out of context.
Holocaust victim in Sinai: I'm not afraid
Yosef Haimovitz crossed southern border to distance himself from Holocaust memorials, special television broadcasts; upon returning to Israel following Dahab terror attacks, he says 'I was part of Hitler's death brigade and rescued many Jews'
Seya Egozy
About 30 Israelis out of the 1,600 currently staying in Sinai crossed the border terminal back to the southern town of Eilat Monday night. The series of terror attacks, which took place in the tourist resort of Dahab, did not manage to frighten the vacationers at the beaches closer to the border.
On Tuesday morning, two buses carrying Arab Israeli tourists crossed the border toward Sharm al-Sheik.
Itzik Chai, general manager of the Taba crossing, said: "The border terminal is prepared for great waves of Israelis returning home, should there be such people."
---------(SIDE BAR)------------------
Sinai Horror
Egypt: Bombers carried out attacks / Ali Waked, Dahab
(VIDEO) At least 23 people killed, 62 wounded in three simultaneous bombings in Sinai's tourist resort of Dahab; Egyptians estimate suicide bombers were involved in at least two of the bombings. No Israelis hurt in attacks
Full story
-----------------------------------
One of those who did return to Israel was 74-year-old Yosef Haimovitz from Eilat, who chose to spend this year's Holocaust Day at the Hilton Taba casino. The hotel suffered a terror attack two years ago and is far from Dahab, where terror struck Monday night, but Haimovitz chose not to take any chances.
As a Holocaust survivor, Haimovitz is aware of the fact that there are those who will be amazed over his decision to spend the evening at a casino, but he explained that he chose to distance himself from the memorial ceremonies and the special television broadcasts because "all these sights (of the Holocaust Day films) are too difficult for me."
'Casino filled with Israelis'
On Tuesday morning, when he crossed the border back to Israel, Haimovitz announces that he would be returning to Taba, but not to the southern part of the peninsula.
"There were many Israelis at the Hilton casino, hundreds. The casino was full," he told Ynet. "We heard about the terror attack because there were many phone calls from Israel. Some of the Israelis escaped immediately, while the others stayed."
"I am not afraid of anything. I was part of Hitler's death brigade and I saved many Jews during the Holocaust because the Nazis didn’t know that I was Jewish," he said.
Haimovich plans to return to the blackjack and roulette tables, "but not to Sinai, only to Taba."
He didn't hide his criticism of the State of Israel, saying that he had very good reasons to spend his free time south of the border.
"There are casinos filled with Israelis all over the world, only in Israel there is no casino. There will be more terror attacks, and it's the Israelis' fault. A hotel in Eilat is expensive, while the hotels in Sinai are cheap," he charged.
While Haimovitz and two other yeshiva students returning from the Taba casino were making their way back home, three young Israeli arrived at the border terminal carrying three large backpacks. To the surprise of the border's security guards, they asked to cross the border to Sinai.
"A terror attack doesn’t happen twice in the same place," one of them said before continuing toward the terminal.
One person who will most certainly not be returning to Sinai in the near future is 18-year-old Gdalia Cohen, who was dining in a fish restaurant in Dahab when terror struck and suffered a shock in light of the difficult sights. Only last week, Cohen lost his grandmother Marcel in the Tel Aviv central bus station terror attack. (04.25.06, 09:59)
Now, the quote that I don't understand is "There are casinos filled with Israelis all over the world, only in Israel there is no casino. There will be more terror attacks, and it's the Israelis' fault. A hotel in Eilat is expensive, while the hotels in Sinai are cheap,"
I can understand why he would predict more terror attacks IN GENERAL, as the political situation is in shambles, but I don't get what he means by the SPECIFIC reason that he offers, i.e., the fact that "a hotel in Eliat is expensive, while the hotels in Sinai are cheap."
Oops, I said confab and meant to say Israoil.
QRS,
I can make sense of the quote.
Gambling is banned in Israel. No casinos are allowed. As a result, those Israelis who want to gamble have to go elsewhere. In this case, they descend go the Sinai Peninsula, where there are legal casinos. Furthermore, as a fact, hotels are far more expensive in Israel than in the Sinai.
Therefore, the quoter was basically saying that simple economics reveal that Israelis will continue to vacation in the Sinai, and will continue to be targets for future terrorist attacks.
His position makes sense - there have been three major attacks against resorts in the Sinai that Israelis frequent in the past two years, and yet Israelis, knowing there is a potential danger in the Sinai, continue to return to gamble and have fun with low cost vacations.
There's no such a thing as Arab or Muslim terrorism. Remember among others "The Lavon Affair"? or Mossad agents caught in New Zealand. Convicted of passport theft. Ask Helen Clark.
She is the real "Iron Lady", didn't
succumb to Israeli pressure or blackmail. Unlike W the wise (sic),
I do not know what he represents.
What I really really know is that he has succeeded in making most of us idiots. Beware, don't trust media news. Full of propaganda and disinformation.
As for me, I get news from:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
No such thing as Arab or Muslim terrorism?
Have fun with your tin foil hats!
Another statement worth noting, and that ties in with the earlier comment by the Israeli gambler:
"Stephen Hadley, President Bush's national security adviser, said it was not yet clear who was behind the attack but noted most victims were Muslims and said that negated any idea there was a war between the West and Islam.
"It's the terrorists, really, against those who are in favor of peace and democracy," Hadley said on CBS' "Early Show."
In Israel, Brig. Gen. Elkana Har Nof of the prime minister's counterterrorism department told state radio that the Sinai resorts were likely to be attacked again because they are a key link in Egypt's economy.
"The coast combines all the elements that are a target, especially for global jihad," Nof said.
The attacks were expected to have an immediate impact on tourism, which is Egypt's No. 1 source of foreign exchange bringing in $6.1 billion in 2004. The Sinai resorts account for a fourth of Egypt's hotel beds. "
-------------------
TWO FOR ONE SALE: This very convenient form of economic warfare provides both political and economic benefits for those conducting a 'war on terror.'
BTW, Miss r, there is no such thing as a God-fearing terrorist. Therefore, terrorists can be neither Muslim, Christian, or Jew - because by definition they all fear God.
Terrorists, however, DO NOT answer to God, which is why they are capable of engaging in any means necessary to secure their goals.
Egypt comments on the timing of the bombs ("Independence Day"):
"For the third time, terrorists struck about the time of a national holiday. On Tuesday, Egypt celebrated the anniversary of the Israeli withdrawal from Sinai in 1982.
"I do not think it is a coincidence that this attack happens amid celebration of Sinai Liberation Day," the Egyptian interior minister, Habib al-Adli, said on television. "The other two attacks in Taba and Sharm el Sheik also took place during celebration of national occasions; that raises question marks.
"We will catch all those responsible very soon."
The Egyptian authorities at first said the bombs appeared to have been detonated by remote control. Later, a local official said the explosions appeared to be the work of suicide bombers. An investigator at the scene Tuesday morning said that the bombs were all timed explosive packs, and that there was no evidence of suicide attackers.
oops, forgot to include the link.
By golly, but I finally got the right and exact URL for above entry at 24 Apr 8:40 PM: it is madcowprod.com; Dan Hopsicker is the editor-webmaster. Thanks for ur patience.
QRS,
Whether or not YOU consider someone who suicide bombs or kills innocents to be Muslim is beside the point. Such a person BELIEVES to be Muslim, is HOLDING HIMSELF OUT to be Muslim, and is doing what he is doing for a perceived MUSLIM CAUSE.
This does not mean that suicide bombers actually represent what Islam stands for - but then again, do you really know what it stands for?
Religion can be interpreted 20 different ways to mean 20 different things. In fact, the Koranic text CAN be used to justify terrorism (killing of innocents), just as a selective interpretations of MOST religions can justify terror.
This is part of why I am atheist.
Please do not delude yourself into thinking religion necessarily is something peaceful or moral, because it is not. It can be peaceful, but it is not inherently peaceful.
Hmm, I'm all for healthy criticism of the Israeli government. But when people start posting links to sites like this which include Holocaust denial, I sense an agenda.
Judging impartially is very difficult for those who hate the ones they judge.
The Israeli situation is very sad; their seem to be many atrocities by extremists on either side while I'd imagine the majority of both populations simply want peace.
Anon 2:34 pm:
Touche! YOU ROCK! You stated exactly what I know to be true.
*gives you the five star salute*
Hello mr circular argument.
So if someone doubts the validity of the holocaust, they are anti-jew? Or is it that someone who is anti-jew automatically doubts the holocaust?
"This horse is blue. Thus, all horses are blue."
What about jewish people who doubt the holocaust? What about jewish people who are anti-zionist? Just because someone is Jewish does not mean that they do not dislike the actions of the corrupt leaders of Israel.
Show me another country that has so many dual citizens riddled through our top ranks of government, business, and media, and I'll listen to how some other country influences the politics of the US like Israel does. My agenda will always be to expose as much corruption as possible. Right now, in my opinion, evidence points to Israel as a greater central source of external influence on our government... And while we're at it, how about the fact that the country that hates Arabs most is not only the majority body of government lobby for us to continue killing Arabs, but the military intelligence and evidence originates from there as well.
Don't tell me about agendas :)
Find it hard to beleive that people see all this happening in the world via the net the possibley one way left for a good proportion of free speech to exsist and yet these people actually beleive the spin and "news" they see,as it is the "truth".
Greed has turned America into a country where its "rulers" make money from the deaths of American men and woman.
Sending them into false wars of thier own making,and why do these conflicts keep happening ?
For them to profit from more and more arms sales and keep thier bank balances fat on the blood of people loved ones.
They use these wars to distract everyones mind off the fact that those in "power" are so corrupt and souless in thier search for self power and greed that they have been doing it for over well over 50 years.And will continue to do so until america changes the way its country is run.
And they will continue to send people's children and mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters into countries to "liberate" them....that is as long as its profitable for them.
I pitty the Us atm its being eaten up by some of the worst "leaders" in history and yet u still do nothing about it.
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=136379
Is this how the lawmen of America are to deal with it's people ?
Scorekeeper,
No, I would beg to differ. QRS's report is dripping with ignorance. For a bit I thought perhaps hate was behind it, but I have come to the conclusion that her paranoid rant that somehow Israel is responsible in fact comes from a brain that is fixated on conspiracy theories and hard left websites.
And I wholly agree with you that her perspective is one of the major problems with the Middle East today.
I want to add something. I am going to edit a comment I stated earlier about religion. Let me quote myself so you will see my edit.
Please do not delude yourself into thinking religion necessarily is something peaceful or moral, because it is not. It can be peaceful, but it is not inherently peaceful.
No. I have come to the conclusion that religion in and of itself is inherently hateful.
The base belief of religion - at least the "Big Three" - is somehow "I am saved and you are not." "My religion is the one TRUE religion,and you believe in a LIE." "Those who do not believe will not make it into heaven."
How is that BASE BELIEF something that doesn't IN AND OF ITSELF breed hatred?
That doesn't mean that religion necessarily = hate. There are good people who happen, coincidently to be religious.
But a person's religious belief or lack thereof has no bearing whatsoever on whether such a person is moral or not, and I would argue that some of the most immoral people in the world were and ARE in fact highly religious.
I want to add one final thought. I read your updated blog. You stated "Israel has some explaining to do."
What sort of explaining? That their intelligence sadly proved correct? Why is that worthy of an explanation? It's obvious! What about Al Queda, who aired a videotape of their hatred in the days RIGHT before the attack, calling for the death of Israel. Doesn't it stand to reason that in fact THEY owe an explanation?
Oh right, of course not. There is no al queda, it's Israelis or Americans bombing themselves. HOW SILLY OF ME!
You are of the nonsensical/lunatical mind set that somehow Israel is behind the bombing of its own people. You search for hidden meanings, even when there are none, to justify your absurd and highly offensive perspective.
Care to tell me why a jump to the conclusion that Israel is responsible or MOST LIKELY responsible immediately after the bombing, while facts were still being reported, and while people still were dying from wounds sustained, is not itself a form of either extreme ignorance or latent hatred?
I am going on the limb and saying it's extreme ignorance, not hatred.
That said...
Care to tell me why you, an intelligent and sophisticated person, would be drawn into conspiracy theory garbage that is easily refuted by those who actually care to read FACTS written by CREDIBLE SOURCES?
Care to tell me why you are not offended when someone says the Holocaust never happened and that there is a Jew controlled media and/or monetary supply, and yet you are horribly offended should someone malign Muslims?
Care to tell me why you even bother anymore with the term "The Truth Shall Set You Free," if in fact you are clearly being shackled by lies and disinfo, and spreading lies and disinfo on the internet?
For someone who calls himself 'scorekeeper' you're pretty poor at keeping score. In that respect, you bear a strong resemblance to Miss r.
ONE: "You cloak your dripping hate in a quote of "I report you decide" no Israelis died so they're behind it......"
First, the main trigger for the post was an elaborate quote from an Israeli counter-terrorism official about a very specific warning given to Israelis before the blasts. The fact that no Israelis died is tangential and may be coincidental.
Moreover, I did not EXPRESSLY draw any conclusion as I do not KNOW what happened, anymore than the mainstream media which incessantly and instantaneously - without any proof whatsoever - blames the same target their government and corporate handlers are waging war against (i.e., 'Islamic terrorists'). How convenient.
TWO: "If anyone was curious why the Middle East is so screwed up they'd just have to read this post."
If anyone were curious why the world is so screwed up they'd just have to read your brainless comment. Lacking both originality and substance, it is characteristic of the vast majority of mindless commentary deposited by mainstream media into the cesspool of recent history. Do you work at FOX News?
THREE: "BP and Sandman got several emails and comments after it was reported many of those were from Israeli readers. An Israeli poster posted condolences the day of the blast and then noted that the Israeli Red Cross immediately offered help and were on stand by. Egypt said they weren't interested."
So? What's your point? That because SOME Israelis have compassion and sympathy, that ALL Israelis are compassionate and sympathetic to Arabs and that NO Israeli could have been linked to these bombings???
At least my conclusions are POSSIBLE. Your conclusions are utterly bereft of logic and unmoored from experience.
FINALLY: "Sandman tells me that most his friends in Egypt believe that 3000 Jews didn't show up for work on 9-11."
Again, so what? The question is not what people think but, WHAT IS TRUE? And again, whether Israelis died in the attack is not materially conclusive.
To suggest that Israeli Mossad might somehow be involved in certain earth-shattering events is NOT, as you insist, 'hateful and irrational,' but a reasoned possibility based on other UNDISPUTED facts and geo-political advantages to be gained by the Israeli government.
For example...
1. Five Israelis are caught celebrating - not in the streets of Palestine thousands of miles away - but on a roof top in NJ across from the smoldering remains of the towers.
2. "BiBi" Netanyahu gets on national tv and declares that the attack on the WTC is "good for Israel."
3. A vast network of Israeli spies are rounded up across the US and the news report on it is pulled off the networks no sooner than it gets on.
4. Finally, directed by a handful of extremely right-wing zionists in the Bush administration, the US subsequently invades Iraq - one of the countries on Israel's sh*t list.
I could go on, but what's the point in repeating what's all over the internet? The fact is, there are a myriad of reasons to draw the conclusion that those who incessantly pin the blame on so-called 'Islamic terrorists' - using a string of lies and innuendos - are just as likely to be responsible for the crime.
MOREOVER, any and all THEORIES can be laid to rest in an instant with CREDIBLE and definitive evidence of who was really behind these attacks.
Until that happens though, EVERYONE who had the MEANS, the MOTIVE and the OPPORTUNITY is suspect.
In sum, deposit your nonsensical drivel elsewhere. People are too wise for it, here.
And miss r, said: "But a person's religious belief or lack thereof has no bearing whatsoever on whether such a person is moral or not,"
AGREED.
"[S]ome of the most immoral people in the world were and ARE in fact highly religious."
'CLAIM' TO BE RELIGIOUS. (Good way to get people angry with large groups of peaceful people.)
And, yes, Israelis must explain the conflicting quotes about the warnings, and if they did get a specific warning about "Independence Day," why they didn't share it with Egyptians.
As for the rest . . . I've gone over the reasons for my assessments ad nauseum. If you don't like them, then don't read them. But, I won't keep explaining myself over and over again.
One more thing, I am NOT anti-Jewish.
So, your repeated suggestions that I am, despite your FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE that I am NOT, are both irrational and offensive.
My comments and analysis are based on facts and logic. Disagree with them if you will, but stop attempting to malign my character.
Criminals are the root of the problems, not a particular race or religion. Imagine a flow chart with four boxes. On the bottom level are C and M: the nominally Christian Western democracies and the Muslim nations. The next level up, in the centre, is a J box, for Jewish people. Above this is a box labelled Z, for Zionist crime syndicate. There are six straight lines connecting each box with each other (draw the C and M boxes so that J doesn't block them from Z). The bottom three boxes represent the vast majority of the world's people: all religions and races; these are the decent, honorable majority. The top box are the criminals whom we should target for prosecution, conviction, and subsequent removal from the scene.
The horizontal line between C and M represents how the Christian and Muslim people are played off against each other. This ranges from wholesale killings such as the Iraq war to the anti-Islam cartoons furore which led to "only" some 15 to 20 deaths in a single day. The two diagonal lines from J to C and M denote how Jews are being played against everyone else. The criminals play on Jews' fears of persecution, and also hide behind the Jewish people's coat-tails by claiming that attacks on the criminals are attacks on "the Jews". In this situation, the Zionist criminals are able to recruit Mossad agents for false-flag attacks by telling them that they are needed to "save Jews" around the world. The Mossad agents loyally warn their own people of forthcoming attacks, e.g. WTC, London 7/7, Amman, Dahab, etc. So there is the overt war against "Muslim militants", and the covert false-flag operations by Israeli agents, who are only foot soldiers and no more culpable than the troops in Iraq. The three remaining lines from the Z box down to J, C and M represent the Zionist cabal's malign influence.
Now to explain the Zionist programme for setting up this situation:
(1) Establish a mighty banking empire (e.g. Rothschilds) to raise the seed money for the forthcoming political operations.
(2) Buy up and take control of the press (in the wealthier nations; the developing nations are less important as they would provide a lower return on investment).
(3) Start a political movement (Zionism) to obtain a sovereign state (occupied Palestine / Israel).
(4) Start a new religion (Holocaustianity) about a "Holocaust" of a very large number - e.g. "six million" - of the minority religious group (Jews). Jews are selected as the allegedly persecuted group, merely because they are the minority group. [Apologies if this seems offensive; it is not designed to be, although it is clearly a major paradigm shift for many. For a tactful introduction to the "gas chambers" myth, I recommend the link
www.vho.org/GB/Books/loth
which offers a free .pdf download. The author is now in a German jail, which demonstrates that the criminals are desperate to try to keep the lid on this hoax. The irony is that if one persists with the mythical official historical account, the resulting theories are either racist or include absurdities about governments practising genocide on their own people, or one is left floundering with a fuzzy notion of an "Illuminati".]
(5) Set up an organization (Anti-Defamation League) in order to deflect any criticism of Zionism by claiming it is an attack on Judaism and Jews. If anyone comes after your criminal organization, label them as an "anti-Semite".
(6) When (3) and (4) do not succeed, start a World War.
(7) Start a revolution (Bolshevik).
(8) When (3) and (4) have still not succeeded, and (7) starts to lose its potential for ethnic cleansing and looting because your own candidate (Trotsky) was defeated and killed), start a Second World War.
(9) Seize any opportunity to promote the new Holocaustianity religion. If, say, concentration labor camps employ Zyklon B (hydrogen cyanide) in delousing rooms in order to save lives by reducing the toll from typhus amongst the slave labor inmates, then claim that these were really "extermination gas chambers", and propose a ludicrous conspiracy theory about a plot to murder six million Jews - in the absence of an iota of credible supporting evidence.
(10) Pay some of the minority (Jewish) community to phony up hate crimes against themselves, e.g. vandalising their own cars, desecrating Jewish graves, slashing their clothes and drawing a swastika on the stomach with a marker pen, etc.
(11) As a consequence of (9) and (10), the Jewish people are fearful of persecution. They will accept that tough measure against "terrorists" and "haters" are necessary.
(12) As a consequence of (11), it is possible to recruit a clandestine army of terrorists (Mossad), who will stage false-flag attacks that exploit divisions between the Christian (Western democracies) countries and Islamic nations, in the belief that these are necessary in order to protect and save Jews.
(13) Obtain nuclear weapons for your sovereign state. Assassinate any president (Kennedy) that exhibits resistance.
(14) Ratchet up the bribery and blackmail of world political leaders, with the aid of (12) and (13), to the point where you have a de facto protection racket for governments, run by the Zionist international crime syndicate. As a consequence of (12), it is possible to recruit the armed forces of Western democracies as your own proxy army, de facto private mercenaries who will loot and decimate the population of Muslim nations, thereby neutralising opponents of your very own nuclear-armed sovereign state (Israel). If a government refuses to obey your orders (e.g. designate January 27 as a "Holocaust" Memorial Day), then hit them hard (e.g. a ferry sinking).
In conclusion, anti-Jew sentiments are playing into the hands of the criminals who seek to establish a prison planet. The idea that someone should be targeted and persecuted merely due to their race or religion is of course deplorable, and anyone with sufficient hatred of some group to want to do them harm is a dim-witted, sick individual who ought to be locked up. However, it is only to be expected that in the initial phases of suspecting that there is more than meets the eye, members of one racial or religious affiliation will regard the others with suspicion. It is high time we moved beyond these primitive tribal differences, and progressed to a new alignment based upon ethics rather than ethnics.
QRS,
I do not think you actually think with hate.
But let us examine how you think.
Blast in Sinai...hmm...let's see how Mossad could be behind this?
Suicide bombing in Tel Aviv...let's see how Mossad could be behind this?
9/11...let's see how Mossad could be behind this?
Anything bad in the world...let's see how Mossad could be behind this?
This sort of thinking is highly irrational and clearly biased. Let's go through your supposed "evidence."
1. The claim that Israelis were celebrating in Newark on 9/11 is first of all an exaggeration. The claim is "they looked happy." First of all, it is unclear what "looking happy" even means. Second of all, it is unclear why they were there, but according to many reliable sources, they were in the US, spying on Islamic groups.
http://web.archive.org/web/20020802194310/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html
http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.03.15/news2.html
In fact, that is why Mossad has agents around the world - to spy on Islamic groups.
2. You take the quote that Netanyahu said completely out context. I heard him say the exact quote you mention. He said, indelicately, that now that September 11 happened, Americans sympathize with Israel. Yeah? It happens to be true. And the fact that Netanyahu said this is proof of nothing.
3. The US spies on Israel. There is an international spy environment where each nation spies on everyone. Yet there is the selective focus on Israel. Perhaps the reason it was pulled is because the story was horribly biased and barely passed for news?
As far as the massive number of Israelis detained after 9/11. Every single Israeli has a military background - it is required to join the military.
And there were illegal immigrants in the US? WOW! As if Israel is the only nation to have illegal immigrants in the US.
In fact, after 9/11, THOUSANDS of people were detained for immigration violations - MOST of them were Muslim. Your warped brain would say that ONLY the Israelis who were detained were rightfully detained, and EVERYONE ELSE had their due process rights taken away.
4. As I have listed a million times. It is nonsensical to somehow say ISRAEL determines the American foreign policy. In fact there were scores of reasons why Bush decided to invade Iraq. If you follow the money, Israel's influence is one of the SMALLER reasons. Yet there is the selective focus on Israel.
Yes, you could go on and on, and each time you do, you expose a flawed and cracked way of thinking, refusing to acknowledge that in fact there are such things as Islamic suicide bombers.
And I will repeat that. Islamic suicide bombers.
These people in fact quote passages from the Koran that are not made up. As I stated, the central premise of religion (not just Islam), is "My religion is the one TRUE religion, and I am going to heaven and YOU ARE NOT." Religion itself is hate based. If someone who is religious is a good person, that is despite religion's influence, not because of it, because even the most moderate branches of religion highlight the differences amongst people, and teach the concept that the only way to go to heaven is to be a "true believer."
And so, the Islamic suicide bombers decided to believe a branch of radical Islam. I used to think that this was contra to Islam itself, but now I do not believe it is. This does not mean everyone who is Islamic (or religious) is a suicide bomber, or that religion expressly justifies suicide bombing. But religion DOES justify intolerance.
You yourself are intolerant against gay people - which is based off the Muslim faith. Care to deny this? How does this comport with a "religion of peace?"
---
The bottom line is that you choose to believe the lies spewed on hate sites across the internet and post them here.
EITHER you are simply massively gullible OR you are latently hateful towards Jews. I do not believe you are hateful towards anyone, so I choose to believe that you simply are massively gullible and prone to paranoia.
But you are spreading lies and hate on this site, whether you want to admit it or not.
The only rational explanation is that an old man in a cave was behind everything.
Zenmonkey,
Way to oversimplify. As if Bin Laden does not have a vast fortune which has been used to fund terror. As if he doesn't have access to modern technology, even from a cave, with which to contact who he wants. And as if al queda is top heavy - it isn't - it's run more through the basis of many independent cells.
QRS,
I want to add that scum like poseidon post here with nary a comment from you. Should he say something against Muslims - THEN you react.
Why is that?
People speak for themselves.
I am not obliged to reply to every comment on my blog.
If I didn't know you personally, I would not reply to you.
QRS,
You grant poseidon/confab/Mighty Thor/etc a forum - without deleting their posts - and then do not reply when they say outlandish things, except, generally, if they are against Muslims.
You do not see that as sending a certain message as to what this blog espouses, even if that is NOT what this blog espouses?
I speak for myself. Not for others. And others speak for themselves, not for me.
Nevertheless, your characterization of Poseidan as "scum" says more about your character than it does about the substance of his comment.
Moreover, addressing your ridiculous replies to the points I made:
1. They were not described as "looking happy." They were described as "jumping up and down" and "high-fiving."
2. You are a master of PR, characterizing "BiBi's" Blunder as an "indelicate" reality. He said what was in his heart and it was ruthless.
3. You cavalierly refer to Israeli spies as if it is perfectly normal, when indeed it is HIGHLY illegal - indeed criminal. Did you forget the Pollard is rotting in jail for life because he spied?
4. "I’ll make it clear again, that we will use military might to protect our ally, Israel.” --Bush, March 20, 2006 (and this is nothing new).
In sum, your assertions are based in fantasy not reality. I have every reason to be concerned about Israeli activity in the US and to scrutinize it with a microscope.
Finally, re: "EITHER you are simply massively gullible OR you are latently hateful towards Jews."
Maybe you didn't understand me the first time I said it. Your accusations of "anti-semitism" are not only NOT based on facts BUT ALSO bereft of any logic.
"It is not anti-Semitic to criticize the policies of the state of Israel."--Colin Powell, at the OSCE conference.
Your dogged persistence in the face of overwhelming evidence that you are wrong is remarkable.
Albion,
Every single citizen of the State of Israel, unless granted a religious exception, was in the military.
The supposed Mossad "infiltrators" of government agents merely were citizens of Israel who were in the army - as they were required to.
It is a seperate discussion as to whether foreigners should be able to work for government agencies. But to single out Israel for their actions smacks of bias. Blame the system that enables foreigners to hold any sensitive posts within the government, that's a fair point.
As far as why the Israelis were filming the WTC burning - so? Many people filmed the WTC burning.
As far as why the Israelis were "happy," that is subjective as to whether they even were happy. And ONE WITNESS saw these Israelis - it would never pass muster in a court of law.
Furthermore, it is very credible that these individuals were looking to infiltrate al queda, and merely posing as someone who hates America.
The bottom line is that there is a fishing for reasons why Israel is out to get America - when in fact Israel is one of the best friends America has. Mossad itself is one of the best friends America has, and one of the best sources for intelligence that America has.
The failure to recognize this shows perhaps you are the one with blinders.
QRS,
Poseidon denied the Holocaust and then spoke of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. I would say that that is a pretty scummy thing to think. The fact that you DON'T think he is scum speaks volumes about YOUR character.
1. In fact the Israelis were described by one individual as merely "looking happy." Look at the links I showed.
2. I heard the statement Netanyahu said. It was quite clear what he meant, though he did not quite say it in the best manner - namely, that 9/11 will make Americans more sensitive to what Israelis have to go through. This does not mean it in and of itself was "good for Israel."
3. Pollard is in jail for spying - but my point is that we live in a world of spies. Israel is not the only nation that spies. Moreover, America spies on Israel. To pretend as if Israel is the only nation that spies is a very selective perception.
4. Bush can say what he wants - but the facts speak for themselves. He is not likely to say "We are willing to go to war for Exxon Mobil." Or "War for Halliburton!"
In sum, I agree with Colin Powell.
Criticism of Israel in and of itself is not antisemitic. But criticism of Israel in a way that pretends it is particularly worse than other nations, and in a way that pretends somehow it has an influence it does not have, and in a paranoid and outlandish manner in which you criticize it...
It is either ignorant or based on hate. I am not saying you are antisemitic. I believe you to be ignorant and gullible. You believe hard left hate sites that clearly ARE antisemitic and then spread your beliefs onto this blog, and I find that very sad.
QRS,
I want to add that I find it humorous that you believe Bush lies in pretty much everything he utters, but the one place you believe he is speaking the truth is when he says he wants to defend an ally.
THAT is amusing.
Albion,
The Rothschildes are Jewish, but then again, MANY PEOPLE OTHER THAN THAT ONE FAMILY WERE AND ARE BANKERS.
To suggest that somehow the actions of one family justifies any sort of biase/prejudice towards Jews is the essence of antisemitism.
Israel does not extort money for its military adventures. AIPAC does not represent Israel - they are American Jews who lobby for American Israeli relations. Many people are members of AIPAC - including those who were against the war in Iraq.
Yassir Arafat was a mass murderer who extorted $20 billion which was meant for aid to the Palestinians. Palestinians suffered and died while he was living large. In fact, Arafat and his allies killed dissidents and those who disagree with him. The King of Jordan killed thousands of Palestinians in 1970. In fact, more Arabs killed Arabs than America or Israel.
So let's get real. The Arab nations have a LOT to answer for. They preach and practice hate and then blame Israel and America. It is a pathology, and it is very, very sad.
Miss r said:
"To suggest that somehow the actions of one family justifies any sort of biase/prejudice towards Jews is the essence of antisemitism."
YES. Agreed. And So? Neither she nor I have suggested anything of the sort.
So, what in God's name is your point?
QRS,
Albion stated, and I quote.
Do you deny that the Rothchilde's are Jewish? Do you deny that they (and others like them) conspired to drown the nations of this world in debt, so that they would forever be beholden to these bankers? All this happened before the creation of Israel, but no doubt these men were Zionists.
This is implying somehow that Zionism is tied to a conspiracy to keep the world in debt at the VERY least. It also is implying that Zionists (ie Jews) are the "Jew bankers" that various commentators on your blog stated they are.
"Albion..." Refuted Thusly
(Mighty Thor, 26 Apr 06)
By golly, but what great blogs qrswave has with such patient diligence generated! I really enjoyed "Poseidon's" above detailed analysis, for which he's cursed by the Jew disinfo agent--way to go Poseidon! Give us more, do.
Now let me here take pointed offense at "Albion Moonlight's" above cruel platitude regarding my reputed "ignorant hatred": First, it's not ignorant--observe I give copious and substantial citations along w. reasoned argument, conclusions following in logic fm premises--what do u want? Talmud is anti-human hate-campaign, war-strategy against human race wherein the murder of Christ, noneother than the very Son-of-God himself, is celebrated by those filthy, putrid, scummy, anti-human Jews; case closed.
Regarding hatred: hatred of criminals, like Jews, is justified, the criminals then attempting naturally to outlaw such reasonable hatred. Note emotion, as hatred, is what carries the human quite automatically between instances of thought and reason. So emotion is perfectly consonant and consistent with reason, and to outlaw such justified hatred of Jews is against reason and humanity. Emotion and hatred verily do have constructive place within reason.
Note "Miss R," typical Jew pathological liar, wants to intimidate Qrswave into CENSORSHIP to prove she isn't "antisemitic." But I assure one and all antisemitism is obedience to God, which we need much more of, and appreciate the fair opportunity to so exposit my humble opinion. Criminals are naturally afraid of truth as it tends to expose them, informing their victims. Verily, truth is hate to those who hate the truth, eh? (Ck Gosp. JOHN 8:44.)
CONCLUSION: So there, "albion moonlight," u ignorant guttersnipe, put that in ur proverbial pipe and smoke thereupon; fie upon u. Thor
"Oh, and Albion is a guy."
Sorry about that!
:)
And re: everything else you said - hear, hear!
(This is one long ass comment section.)
"Albion..." Again Criticised
(Mighty Thor, 26 Apr 06)
Yes, I'm hateful, quite reasonably so, selectively, justifiably, and appropriately, emotion, including hatred, moderated within and in accord w. reason--Jews (i.e. Talmudists and co-racial loyalists thereto) well deserve such hatred. U "Albion...," on the other hand, are just a dumbass as when u say I "put all...problems down to 'Talmud,'" obviously without any citation or foundation.
U say u don't believe in God but do believe, evidently, in "evil," the foundation to Pelagian heresy. Gad, but u're a mixed-up moron, aren't u? I'd say root of problems is obsessive delusionalism and illogic, like urs "Albion...." For things are absolutely determined in accord w. principle of cause-effect (or God's will), there being no perfectly free human will.
Jews must always make use of accomplices among the gentiles, and I've identified this common mentality-philosophy as that, generally of SUBJECTIVISM, esp. moralism (like Pelagianism). But Jews always end dominating as they make such subjectivism their very religion, as I exposit on WhiteAlert.com under "essays" heading.
CONCLUSION: So I'll stop there as we well establish the necessary criteria by which to deal best w. the Jew-oligarchal problem. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
DC is zionist occupied territory.
It is always amusing to see the shills pose as "ordinary citizens" who just happen to support Israel (attempting to defend the indefensible), and then blow their cover by resorting to ad hominem attacks when they realise they have lost the argument.
Of course, Israel is much more than merely a boil that needs to be lanced; it is the equivalent of a malignant tumor. The Zionist state was formed on the basis of a massive lie, and should be wiped off the map. However, unlike some commentators, I am not calling for a full-scale carpet bombing until the crater is so deep that it would take an explorer team weeks to get to the bottom of it. I do not support the idea that thousands or millions of people should be killed in order that some might be saved at some future time, e.g. by reducing the risk of WWIII. The cold-blooded killing of some five million Israelis just because Zionism is a destablising power behind events such as 9/11, and would take us into WWIII based on their previous form, would be amongst the most heinous war crimes in humankind's history. It would be a far graver crime than the coalition's killing of some 100,000 Iraqis purportedly because of a theory about "WMDs" and in reality for ulterior motives. Even a deliberate killing of, say, 5,000 people, because of a theory that it might save a greater number, would still be an enormous crime - a redistribution of life and death by a God-playing clique. I would want to see a bloodless, political solution which returned the land of Palestine to its pre-1948 condition when Jews and Arabs lived at peace with each other; before the territory was turned into an apartheid state where peace protesters are shot and bulldozed (or kidnapped, dressed in orange jumpsuits and beheaded in another land some 500 miles away) specifically as a deterrent; before the indigenes were cruelly abused; before the rogue state's spies were frequently apprehended, whether in a van with traces of explosives several hours after two skyscrapers had been demolished, or after stealing a passport from a teraplegic; before a property magnate linked to the rogue state took over the lease for an upmarket office complex and raised the insurance to billions of dollars, a mere seven weeks before three of the complex's skyscrapers were demolished (and conveniently had a chiropodist's appointment on the morning which saved his life); before a supporter of the rogue state was linked to the theft of up to $2.3 trillion from the Pentagon and to a company that makes transmitters for remote-controlled planes in the run-up to an attack by remote-controlled planes on the aforementioned skyscrapers; before a lobbyist for the rogue state was found to run gambling boats on which patsies for the skyscraper attack were observed; before agents of the rogue state demonstrated more than 24 hours' foreknowledge of the attacks in an internal memo at Goldman Sachs in Tokyo; and before the rogue state could coerce other states into handing over their own armed forces as the rogue state's private mercenaries. But even if eliminating the corruption required the deliberate killing of only 500 people, I would still opt to stay with the status quo and attempt a peaceful solution - or at least, one whereby only the arch-villains, following trial and conviction, were sent to the gas chambers.
The Iranians are right not to spell out what they mean by wiping Israel "off the map". If the international community leaves them alone, then of course they should not attack Israel; in this case the interpretation would be as per my description above. If they are attacked on trumped-up charges of having "WMDs" then they would have a right to defend themselves and the carper bombing interpretation would apply.
The fact that historical revisionism and "al Qaeda" terror attacks are intrinsically linked to an underlying global power structure may be discerned by a consideration of currently taboo areas for discussion or investigation. The obvious two are (i) The theory that some group other than suicidal Muslims orchestrated 9/11, 7/7, Bali / Amman / Sharm al-Sheikh / Madrid bombings, etc, for political and business purposes. (ii) The theory that the number of Holocaust victims was deliberately inflated, and victims of a typhus epidemic were said to be victims of an extermination policy, for political and business purposes. Although both theories are prevalent on the internet, the mainstream media will not touch them and any editor who did so would probably be committing journalistic or even physical suicide. Sceptics of the official acount of terror attacks and the Holocaust are routinely accused of defaming the memories of the dead. However, the real motive for attacking sceptics has nothing to do with protecting the dead and the innocent, but everything to do with securing an immunity for organized criminals who are very much alive and kicking, and laughing all the way to the bank.
My view is that (i) and (ii) may be combined into a Grand Unified Theory of Imminent Dictatorship (GUTID). I suspect that the real power brokers may be limited to a clan or mafia of about half a dozen dynastic families such as the Rothschilds, Montefiores, and Bronfmans. The powers that be have demonstrated that their strategy includes hiding behind the Jewish people with cries of "anti-Semitism", whilst they are only too happy to sacrifice tens or hundreds of thousands of ordinary Jews when it suits their agenda. One way of identifying the true seat of power is to consider who is beyond criticism. It is not Bush or Blair, but the State of Israel and zionism.The phenomenon that we encounter, of people being blinkered by the mainstream media and afraid to challenge the official version of events, was brilliantly summed up by Sylvia Stolz, the chief defence lawyer for Ernst Zundel in
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Temp/Temp-SylviaArguesForZundelAgainstTheBeast-Siggy.htm
the statement included at the above link, which included gems such as, "World Jewry knows from experience that almost everyone can be made to believe almost anything if it can be suggested to them that most people believe it. Through the power of suggestion combined with Jewish control of world media the 'Holocaust' has indeed become the suggested belief of almost everyone [...] Criminal law serves the cause of justice through atonement for crime by punishment, while inquisition serves the enforcement of a particular belief through destruction of heretics [...] Inquisition is the purest atrocity, since it destroys freedom of belief." It is easy to see why Stolz was physically carried out of the courtroom, and told that in future she would have to submit motions in writing rather than address the court.
The Holocaust hoax was originated by Rabbi Stephen S Wise back in 1900, when he spoke of "six million living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism". Wise, along with the Jew Morgenthau, was also heavily involved in pushing the "extermination gas chambers" religion from 1942 onwards. Nowadays, the trillion-dollar Zionist crime syndicate employ disinfo merchants such as Andrew E Mathis to make last-ditch attempts to prop up the "disinfestation chambers were gas chambers" hoax, and the associated "six million" myth, for a few more years.
For example, an image of a disinfestation chamber at the Majdanek concentration camp is claimed to be a "gas chamber". Majdanek has been the subject of a major revisionist study by Jurgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno entitled Concentration Camp Majdanek, A Historical and Technical Study; the English edition was published June 2003. A free .pdf file may be downloaded from
http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html
here, along with a number of other books the criminals would love to have been burned. Mathis shows, for example, Chamber III of disinfestation installation barrack 41. The walls have indeed sustained iron blue staining; hydrogen cyanide was employed for treating the prisoners' clothing.
A feature of Majdanek is that the barracks were adapted from old horse stables. At most of the camps, the delousing fumigation rooms were too small to support charges of mass murder by gassings; these small disinfestation rooms had high levels of cyanide on the walls whilst the larger shower rooms allegedly used for mass gassings had negligible or zero levels. Chamber III in the picture is about 30' 5" by 12' 6" by 7'. Hence, the exterminationist conspiracy theorists dare not supply images of the other gas chambers, instead resorting to the ruse that they were "destroyed" by the Germans (reminiscent of Saddam's nuclear weapons).
The Germans were meticulous in their record-keeping, and the death books for Majdanek had columns including name, nationality and date of birth for each deceased. According to the Red Cross figures, the total deaths at Majdanek were 8,831. December 1942 was a bad month with 2,983 dying, 2,505 of whom were Jewish. The camp population was down to 10,900 in January 1943, then increased to peak at 22,500 in June 1943.
Suppose prisoners had somehow been tricked or forced into Chamber III in such quantity that each had only about 20 ins by 10 ins. Pressac, of the exterminationalist school, has postulated that 520 to 729 people at any one time were gassed in a 75 m^2 area, which is 1.2 to 1.55 ft^2 per person and consistent with a 200 ins^2 or 1.4 ft^2 estimate. The fact that the room had no showers is something of a giveaway, and the naked inmates would surely suspect something was wrong when the others kept piling into the room in such quantity. It could take half an hour to get everyone to line up, even if there was not a mass insurrection. However, given that the room area is 365 ins by 150 ins, this would allow INT(365 / 20) * INT(150 / 10) = 270 individuals per gassing in this room. The ventilation of the room was very limited, and in Germar Rudolf's [i]The Rudolf Report[/i], also available as a free download at the [url=http://vho.org/]vho.org[/url] site, he estimates (p.226) for guards not wearing a gas mask, entry to carry out the bodies would only be safe some 3 to 4 hours after a gassing had commenced. If wearing a gas mask but no protective clothing, hard physical work such as carrying out bodies would be possible by about 1.5 to 2 hours after a gassing (with a higher concentration the sweating guards wouldf have been poisoned).
At rest, human respiration may be 10 litres per minute or less; under stress or in depleted oxygen this will increase considerably. In the above scenario, each person is packed into a volume of 1.4 ft^2 by 7 ft = 9.8 ft^3 = 0.277 m^3 = 277 litres. Even averaging 15 litres per minute and without allowing that their bodies occupied much of the volume, they would be inhaling no better than exhaled air within 19 minutes. On page 213 of the [i]Rudolf Report[/i], Rudolf estimates 45 to 60 minutes as the suffocation time for 1,000 people in a 504 m^3 volume which is nearly twice the 277 litres p.p. estimate for a very tightly pached gas chamber. So, given airtight chambers, the Zyklon B would have slowed down the murder productivity, increased the cost, exposed the guards to unnecessary risks compared with simply asphyxiating the prisoners, and exposed the Germans to charges of mass murder by gassings. Zyklon B was perfect for delousing clothes, but absurd as a mass murder weapon. Suffocation, drowning by way of dastardly water pumping apparatus, use of CO instead of hydrogen cyanide, or of course the old fashioned bullet in the back of the head or bayoneting as everyone else did, would all have been a more efficient means of genocide.
It is pleasing to see the level of interest in recent false-flag terror attacks. However, there is an inconsistency about a theory that seeks to correct mistruths regarding events over the last decade whilst maintaining a false version of the events of 62 years ago. This leads to an incomplete, half-baked view that does not properly explain how the present situation has arisen through the Machiavellian machinations of a tiny minority of Jews and their Gentile cronies.
Hi folks,
I'm sorry about my english, it is very poor (this is a third one, first 2 are better :-) ).
I would like to add my comments to this discussion. May be my comments too subjective (because I'm living in Israel), but I think, they have a right to be heard (or be read).
Miss R, before I was like you - I tried to: discuss, prove, argue and call for using logic. It was passed long ago. In my opinion you will never convince them. You are trying to be "soft" using words like "gullible". You are right, these people just "latently hateful towards Jews". It doesn't metter who is the person, if he is jew - it is enough for them. Take any theme or any aspect, they always find some jew or conspiracy. They will not see how much money Egypt receives from USA, but Israel they will always mark out. When these people speak about "bad" israelis, they means jews. Ask them - did they means arabs? They will answers "no" (they forgot that arabic people are living in Israel).
I can only remind to all of you:
1) we jewish - put poison to candies and give them to poor palestinian children (REAL STORY FROM PALESTINIAN PRESS)
2) we (I'm wondering, but me too!) have conspiracy to controll the world. I'm sure all of you heard about (how it is in english?) "protocols of zionistic sages".
3) we (means all of us - me too) rich people and millionaires (Interview from street people in Pakistan)
4) of course we put blood of poor christian babies to the matzah for our horrific religious rite.
5) ... Find and put yourself.
Miss R, don't spend your time. It is not worthy of it.
Hi folks,
I'm sorry about my english, it is very poor (this is a third one, first 2 are better :-) ).
I would like to add my comments to this discussion. May be my comments too subjective (because I'm living in Israel), but I think, they have a right to be heard (or be read).
Miss R, before I was like you - I tried to: discuss, prove, argue and call for using logic. It was passed long ago. In my opinion you will never convince them. You are trying to be "soft" using words like "gullible". You are right, these people just "latently hateful towards Jews". It doesn't metter who is the person, if he is jew - it is enough for them. Take any theme or any aspect, they always find some jew or conspiracy. They will not see how much money Egypt receives from USA, but Israel they will always mark out. When these people speak about "bad" israelis, they means jews. Ask them - did they means arabs? They will answers "no" (they forgot that arabic people are living in Israel).
I can only remind to all of you:
1) we jewish - put poison to candies and give them to poor palestinian children (REAL STORY FROM PALESTINIAN PRESS)
2) we (I'm wondering, but me too!) have conspiracy to controll the world. I'm sure all of you heard about (how it is in english?) "protocols of zionistic sages".
3) we (means all of us - me too) rich people and millionaires (Interview from street people in Pakistan)
4) of course we put blood of poor christian babies to the matzah for our horrific religious rite.
5) ... Find and put yourself.
Miss R, don't spend your time. It is not worthy of it.
Thanks Anon from Israel, for sharing your thoughts.
But, I don't think that you read the comments carefully enough - at least not mine. I am not accusing Jews, as a people, of doing anything.
I am pointing out the obvious - that whoever has the means, a motive and an opportunity to commit a crime must be investigated, especially when they make statements similar to the ones I pulled from Israeli news so shortly after the incident.
I DID NOT MAKE UP THE STATEMENT. It was published for the world to see. The conclusions I drew do not require any malice towards Jews. It's simple deductive logic.
But, to satisfy you and Miss r., you ask me to ignore the facts and pretend that Israelis are beyond suspicion, when obviously they're not.
qrswave, please find any terrorist atack (any of you can find), you will see very good people (like you), who doubts about real organizers and suspects Izrael (or jews).
It is 2 options. If these people are muslems they always blame for Israelis and Americans. If they are not muslems, they blame Israel or jews.
Why do you discuss this theme here? Go to any Israely forum and ask people who was at Gaza, Sinai. Ask people who is living here.
The point is that you will never believe them (despite there are israelis who belives to conspiracy like you - wonder, we have democracy).
So, I'm tired to prove. Whatever I may say, will not convince you. Am I right?
So, you can think what you want.
Anon 12:06 pm,
I mostly was responding to this post and this board out of a need to procrastinate studying for finals. I engaged people who are clearly off their rocker in a discussion which somehow legitimizes what they think. They do not respond to logic, and when confronted with facts, the response is "that comes from the Zionist media" or "paid shill."
Merely debating these people makes them think there is is a debate, when there is not a debate.
Facts are facts are facts. Qrswave and the community she has on the Lies Shall Set You Free site refuse to actually examine facts about the State of Israel. So there is no point in engaging anymore.
I have said this before, but I am so disgusted/repulsed at this point in time, that I actually mean it. This will be my last post on this board. Have fun.
Jews Know They Gotta Destroy Internet
(Mighty Thor, 27 Apr 06)
Gee thanks "Miss R"--especially for ur admissions. U see, u people (Judeo-oligarchal conspiracy--see JBS.org) think u're just gonna DICTATE THE FACTS OF (subjective) REALITY.
We Christians disagree (for conclusions), and so do some Muslims as I understand. We object to Jew-manipulated Orwellian "perpetual war for perpetual peace."
For reality is OBJECTIVE--not what Jews say (SUBJECTIVISM, fascism)--Gosh, u know, so sorry to disappoint u, eh Jew? Yes, I know I'm evil and antisemitic, so sorry about that--we Christians are great sinners, u know.
Regarding the previous Jew: Jew, u gotta take responsibility for ur stinking religion, a religion of conspiracy and conspirators. U (Jew) people and religion declare war against God and God's reality, worshipping urselves. Jew religion, Talmudis, subjectivism, is religion of conspiracy and conspirators, Jews notorious collectivists--it's ur religion, which u must own for all consequences, so often cyclic.
"Miss R" just got too predictable, actually educating and informing the gentiles, pretending to be rationalistic. The other Jew had to tell "Miss R" to shut up as she gave away things so easily, well, and clearly--all in negative manner of course. I've learned to appreciate Jews.
It simply adds to my theory Jews so naturally hate and fear such an objective forum as the free internet: they and Pharisaic gentile co-conspirators must destroy it if possible.
CONCLUSION: Jew conspiracy and mentality is too well exposited on internet blogs, sorry "Miss R" and Jews. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
Miss R., what kind of cell reception do you get in a cave? How is something "run" through "independent cells"? How come no one took a second look at the identities of the hijackers after the Federales admitted that some of their IDs were probably faked?
Poseidon, Ahmadinejad said something that translates as, "Our dear Imam (Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini) said (25 years before) that the occupying regime had to be wiped off the face of the earth. This was a very wise statement."Voltairenet Ahmadinejad never said anything against "da Joos", so sorry. Nor did he say anything about 'maps'. He compared "the occupying regime" of Jerusalem to the forces of the Iranian Shah, puppets of the "world arrogant powers" or the "hegemonic system". Ahmadinejad's words are regularly distorted in the Free Market Press.
Thor, you suck at life, and the absurdity of your pretension is exceeded only by its extent.
Miss r, sorry you feel that way.
You should not be discouraged just because people disagree with you.
Take Thor, for example. I haven't yet read a comment by anyone who agrees with him in his ardently racist views, yet he keeps reciting them.
Qrswave Fails Grade Set By Jew
(Mighty Thor, 27 Apr 06)
Well, qrswave, are racists racist? All I say is racism is natural human virtue of health and loyalty--this is indicated in the dictionary, for example, so I feel fairly secure. I don't actually "recite" as much as I simply try to journalistically, scientifically observe, u see.
Qrswave, "Miss R" is "discouraged" as u won't collude w. her in censoring dissident opinions--Jews will accept nothing less than fascism, and u're "evil" and antisemitic for not doing and cooperating in fascism as Jew demands.
CONCLUSION: Jew "morality" (for gentiles anyway) requires fascist obedience, and u, qrswave, are a great failure and disappointment--how could u, oh u cruel person? Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
Oops, I said confab and meant to say Israoil.
Just as well you self-corrected, MissR. That's a respectable thing to do. I don't like even my pseudonyms being defamed.
I spent two years defending my real name from a perpetual barrage of defamatory lies perpetrated, at the expense of Austrlalian taxpayers, by a Zionist stooge working from within the offices at Manly Council in Sydney. His name is Chris Parsons, MissR, and his official role is Media Lisaon Officer --- but he actually spends his days doing what you are doing now - defending Israel. The ratepayers of Manly in Sydney have to pay for this abusive, defamatory, higly illegal, highly unethical and RACIST activity that benefits only Israel.
I complained to the Mayor of Manly. I sent a compendium of Chris Parsons' defamatory and racist Arab-hating abuse to the New South Wales Independant Commission Against Corruption.
No action was taken.
Here's a few ratepayer-funded samples:
-------------------
An anonymous Neo-Nazi who has been plying cyberspace with gormless anti-Semtic rantings has learn how to sepll the word "Jew"....
The little Nazi cockroach has developed an obsessional neurosis centred on an urban folk myth about a group of "Israelis" seen "snickering on a rooftop" in Manhattan after the 11 September 2001 World Trade Centre airline attack.
[...]
chrisparsons985@hotmail.com
...
Mossad agents seeen dancing, singing and popping champagne corks as the World Trade Centre collapsed. Nmes were Hymie and Shylock, probably
[...]
"Suter", you'll remember, is the fellow Cockroach alleges is behind the mysterious Urban Moving Systems, whose employees were "arrested" after neighbors reported them "laughing and cheering" as they watched the World Trade Center burn.
These five "Middle Eastern-looking men," as described by witnesses, were "Israelis" according to Cockraoch and his buddies (if he has any)
**-----------------------------------------------------------------------**
Chris Parsons Chris.Parsons at manlycouncil.nsw.gov.au
[..]
Disclaimer:- [...]
Views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and are not **necessarily** the views of Manly Council.
http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/imc-editorial/2002-November/006141.html
**-----------------------------------------------------------------------**
Do you think agents of Israel should be online generating defamatory abuse at the expense of Australian ratepayers?
Can you think of any other nation that might have similar arrangements in Australia - or anywhere else in the world?
"Confab," that's some lurid stuff u have for ur own info, without a doubt. I guess Israel-Jews will continue until the goyim are exhausted of funds to be paid for that idiot activity, so non-productive. History is cyclic, as Oswald Spengler indicates in "Decline of the West." Honest elections and death to the Fed. Thor
This is for qrswave.
You claim: "Nowadays, the trillion-dollar Zionist crime syndicate employ disinfo merchants such as Andrew E Mathis to make last-ditch attempts to prop up the "disinfestation chambers were gas chambers" hoax, and the associated "six million" myth, for a few more years."
First of all, where do you get off with this "Zionist crime syndicate" employment idiocy? Do you have any proof of this nonsense? Of course not.
But please do debate me man to man -- come to rodoh.us -- I'll be waiting.
a.m.
a.m., I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about.
I never said what you claim I said. I know nothing about the Holocaust except what I hear on tv and read online occassionally. I'm not terribly interested in it.
And I've never heard of you.
qrswave,
The blog says it was you that posted the article to which I responded.
The article mentions me by name -- twice.
Maybe you should read what you post, eh?
a.m.
Now, I see your name in a comment above made by a visitor - Poseidon.
Your beef is with him, not me.
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